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To: Sam Cree

Sure, Jews overachieve in America.
But Henry Ford was a poor kid who came from nothing to build the world's first great mass-production enterprise, put the world on wheels, and gave America an industrial base. He was an overachiever on a scale attained by only a handful of men in all of human history, let alone American history. He no doubt has his personal obsessions and dark ideas - and there are otherwise nice FReepers here who assert that Catholics are thralls of the Whore of Babylon. Just because people have idiot religious beliefs, as, in my opinion, anybody who hates the Catholic Church does, doesn't make them a target for slime.

George Washington had a small personal devotional statue to the Virgin Mary. Does that make him an idolatrous secret thrall of the Whore of Babylon? No. It means that he had some religious views that some people with idiot views of religion would oppose. Does that make the people with the idiot views on religion idiots on everything else? No. Ford was an anti-Semite? So what. Every Southern Founder of note was a slaveholder. Does that mean that we should never make any speeches from Monticello or Mount Vernon? No.
It's ridiculous and absurd.
Some Jews have achieved great things. Most of the great achievements by human kind have not been by Jews. Jews are not the center of history, the center of the world, the center of the universe, and should not be the center of attention of American politicians in 2008 trying to appeal broadly to America at large to be elected, ESPECIALLY since Jews are not going to vote for him even if he announces his candidacy from the Wailing Wall.

There comes a point where self-obsessed Jewish politics becomes boring. Henry Ford was a great man, a great American, who did more to make this country great than anybody else in the history of American business. Of course there have been great Jews, nobody said otherwise. No American Jewish businessman has ever done anything as important for America and the world as Henry Ford did. If Jews want to make it a RACIAL point that Henry Ford's legacy is a bone of contention, then I side with Ford's legacy against the Jews on this one. Ford did more for America than the Jews.

Ford also died decades ago, and he never killed one Jew anywhere. Hillary Clinton screamed "f---ing Jew!" at somebody. She is running for President. The Henry Ford Museum is not a LEGITIMATE criticism by Jews, it is whiny self-obsession. When juxtaposed with Jewish political SILENCE on Hillary "F---ing Jew!" Clinton's candidacy (because Jews overwhelmingly support Democrats), it blows the keel out from any respectability or consistency on the "Jewish" position re: Romney, Ford or anti-Semitism.

To put is succinctly, in this criticism of Romney declaring at the Henry Ford Museum, the Jews are completely full of shit. They have no legitimate point. By making the point they damage their own credibility. If we have to be so sensitive to Jews (who don't vote for us anyway) that we have to start dismissing Henry Ford, then it's time to start ignoring Jews more, and caring about their sensitivities less. They aren't going to vote for us anyway. The attack on Romney over Henry Ford was the antics of an Al Sharpton. It was juvenile, and whiny, and sounds like the complaints of underachieving ethnics.

I don't care about Henry Ford's anti-Semitism.
He's dead, and he was the greatest industrialist in American history. Ford's techniques made America work, made us rich, and won World War II. His anti-Semitism was a detail of history, and an irrelevant one. If it is to be MADE relevant, in 2007, by Jews pressing a grievance, then it damages my view of Jews alive today making the point, not my view of Henry Ford. These same people will vote for Hillary "F---ing Jew" Clinton, and I am supposed to take them seriously? Sounds like more whiny minority ethnic powers. Sounds like losers, not overachievers.


117 posted on 02/14/2007 7:29:49 AM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Vicomte13
I agree that Henry Ford's good qualities easily outweigh his antisemitism, and that it shouldn't really be a modern concern, certainly not fodder for a 21st century election. I seriously doubt the sincerity of those who brought it up regarding Romney. But:

"Just because people have idiot religious beliefs, as, in my opinion, anybody who hates the Catholic Church does, doesn't make them a target for slime."

In no way can I agree with that statement. Considering the inhuman history of antisemitism, when an international public figure, such as Henry Ford, publicly embraces and champions such a thing, he becomes a legitimate target. Unless one is comfortable with the continued existence of antisemitism and similar evils, it is not a "so what" happenstance as you assert. Continued animosity toward the Ford Motor Company is not appropriate from Jews probably, and certainly does them more harm than good, but it is also somewhat understandable, considering the purposeful and public animosity directed at them by the founder of the company.

"George Washington had a small personal devotional statue to the Virgin Mary..."

How you draw a parallel to George Washington's Christianity and Henry Ford's anitsemitism is beyond me.

"Jews are not the center of history..."

I hardly think that has even been suggested, although Christianity does recognize them as the Chosen People, which may count for something.

"Every Southern Founder of note was a slaveholder..."

Perhaps, but Washington came to doubt the wisom and morality of slavery, and left his slaves their freedom in his will. Jefferson openly recognized the evils of slavery.

"Ford did more for America than the Jews.

I don't know if it's appropriate to compare Ford the individual to "the Jews" as a category here, and I don't think there's a useful point served by it. And it's open to argument.

"To put is succinctly, in this criticism of Romney declaring at the Henry Ford Museum, the Jews are completely full of shit."

One hopes your use of the phrase "the Jews are completely full of shit" is not meant to be all inclusive, as it unfortunately sounds. As I noted previously, the attack on Romney should not be seen as a collective whine by Jews against Christians, but as an insincere political attack by leftists on a "conservative."

"...it's time to start ignoring Jews..."

Perhaps that would be a welcome change.

145 posted on 02/14/2007 8:28:13 AM PST by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
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To: Vicomte13
He's dead, and he was the greatest industrialist in American history. Ford's techniques made America work, made us rich, and won World War II.

This is a side bar to the overall tenor of this thread, but if my memory is correct, the Ford Plants in Ypsilanti MI made 12000+ish B-24 Liberators that helped us to win WWII.

147 posted on 02/14/2007 8:31:31 AM PST by taildragger
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To: Vicomte13

Your attack on the Jooos in this post is over the top. Your repeated attempt to draw them as a monolithic, self-obsessed, do nothing bunch, is duly noted.

A Democratic Jewish group criticized Gov Romney's choice of the Ford Museum. A Republican Jewish group fired back condemning the attack on Romney.

Which part of that are you missing?

"I don't care about Henry Ford's anti-Semitism."

That's clear. You have made the point that the only anti-Semitism you care about is that which you can use as political fodder for your own cause (Hillary). In that you have shown yourself to be no different than the National Jewish Democratic Council.


160 posted on 02/14/2007 10:03:40 AM PST by dervish (Rachel weeps for her children, she refuses to be consoled. Shalit, Goldwasser, Regev)
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