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To: GSlob
"Ed Koch is in urgent need of medical attention. Judging from the above statement, possible Alzheimer. A mix of Byzantium and Sinic [via Mongols] civilizations has its roots anywhere else but in the West."
Russia is a Slavic country like Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Ukraine. What's more culturally it's very close to them. You can't say that Poland or Slovakia deserve to be considered European/ western countries and denied Russia's close links with western culture. Byzantium by the way is also part of Christian /European /western [as opposed to Asian]civilization. Byzantium through Orthodox church shaped Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia. Those influences are part of European heritage, If you deny it you cast Greece and Bulgaria as non-european area.
Sinic influences are present in Russia to the same degree as in England and France. Even Islamic influences are stronger. Heart of Russia state has always been in Europe [Europe ends at Ural mountains]. Asian part of Russia has always been simply a colony. But believe me it influenced Russia to smaller degree than India influenced England. At one point Mongols forced Russia to pay tribute, but Mongols also conquered big chunk of Europe in XIV century [it may be XIII it can be checked easily] and stay there for a few years.
If you limit western culture to Anglo-Saxon,then you are right Russia doesn't belong there. However if you definite western culture in opposition to Islamic or Sinic or Indian or African set of values, you can't denied that this definition covers Russia as well.
However the idea of treating Russia as a prospective ally of US is ludicrous. Now Russia is trying to rebuild its influences in the world using its natural resources as a tool. It's strongly felt in eastern Europe. Here Russia sees itself as US competitor. I believe that Russian politician perceive US as the biggest danger to their interests. They would rather forge close relationship with eastern rising powers.
14 posted on 02/14/2007 12:56:02 AM PST by pppp
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To: pppp
Civilization is sociology. Orthodox civ in this regard is an intrinsically despotic civilization, and belongs squarely with islamic and sinic civs, despite being nominally Christian.
"You can't say that Poland or Slovakia deserve to be considered European/ western countries and denied Russia's close links with western culture."
I was born and grew up in russia and I most emphatically deny the validity of your quoted statement. Barbari sunt, barbarice egit.
18 posted on 02/14/2007 1:40:36 AM PST by GSlob
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To: pppp
"Links with western culture" ought to extend beyond wearing western-looking trousers and using toilet paper. Huntington in its "Clash" did a good analysis, which I was merely elaborating upon in my "civilization is sociology" formula. In Huntingtonian approximation, "civilization is religion". My elaboration is perfectly justified, as the Western civ is not split into Protestant civs and a Catholic civ, as not all catholic or protestant countries [look at the former colonies] even belong to the Western civ, and as a non-christian Israel clearly belongs to it. What unites [or divides] the societies here, and constitutes the in-/ex- clusion criterion is the sociology - including the sociological aspects of the Huntingtonian religion marker.
19 posted on 02/14/2007 1:55:29 AM PST by GSlob
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To: pppp

Excellent point. You nailed it.


22 posted on 02/14/2007 3:00:35 AM PST by twinself
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