Library Wouldn't Help Police Identify Woman Pulled From River -- Legislation Needs Amending

NewsNet5 WEWS Cleveland, OH ^ | Feb. 4, 2007 | Unknown

[AndrewC]

The name's Lt. Bookman, and we don't divulge our clients info! Say, where is the "Tropic of Capricorn Cancer"?

[plan2succeed.org]

Here's that policy:

http://www.fairfield.lib.oh.us/privacy.php

Privacy Policy

Citizens using the public library have the right to expect privacy with regard to information sought or received and materials consulted, borrowed or requested.

In accordance with HB 389, Confidentiality Legislation, effective October 3, 2000, library records and patron information are confidential. However, library records or patron information will be released in the following situations:

1. parents, guardians and custodians will have access to their minor children's records;

2. in accordance with a subpoena, search warrant, or other court order, or to a law enforcement officer who is investigating a matter involving public safety in exigent circumstances;

3. with the consent of the individual who is the subject of the record or information; or

4. for library administrative purposes only.

[Doctor Raoul]

"However, Steiner said that after being contacted about the police request, she told her staff they could release the information if they were sure the caller was a law enforcement officer and it was "a matter of life or death."

How does the library make the determination that it was "a matter of life or death?"

Take the word of the police? After all, they're not there are they.

[dr_lew]

How loudly would you be screaming if a library had released identifying information to an abusive boyfriend posing on the phone as a police officer (without taking a few minutes to check if it was a legitimate request), and a woman was killed?

How would this work, exactly? Wouldn't he know her name?

The colors of a rainbow.....so pretty ..in the sky
Are also on the faces.....of people ..going by
I see friends shaking hands.....sayin.. how do you do
They're really sayin......i love you.

I hear babies cry...... I watch them grow
They'll learn much more.....than I'll never know
And I think to myself .....what a wonderful world

[plan2succeed.org]

You said, "Should your employer give out your information to anyone who calls and asks for it?"

It's not anyone. Police and librarians both have the same boss, the taxpayers. If my HR department calls my Payroll department, are they not allowed to talk about me?

[ConservativeMind]

That's asinine.

So, if you are a librarian and someone claims to be a dispatcher or an officer from the local police department, do you give over all your information? Of course not!

Unless, that is, you let me call you up and request your Social Security number and your bank account information after I tell you the same line.

Only idiots give that sort of information up without a high level of proof.

Are you an idiot?

[saquin]

I see nothing wrong with that policy as written. What other entities would you like to see release personal information without a "subpoena, search warrant, or other court order, or to a law enforcement officer who is investigating a matter involving public safety in exigent circumstances"?

It seems to me they followed the procedure in requesting a court order but then determined it was a matter of "public safety in exigent circumstances".

[saquin]

How would this work, exactly? Wouldn't he know her name?

We're talking about phone numbers and addresses, the kind of identifying information libraries have about patrons and that the police were presumably requesting.

[ConservativeMind]

How do I know someone is with the police department when I'm receiving a random phone call?

Get real. In my area, we've even had so-called "police charities" scam people for money enough that the local police department had to issue a press release for the local news channels to tell everyone it was a hoax.

Anyone can call anyone claiming to be anyone. The proof is in the pudding, not what is being claimed.

Have you been sold the Brooklyn Bridge yet?

[plan2succeed.org]

You said, "abusive boyfriend posing on the phone as a police officer."

That is a hypothetical argument that does not fit the facts in this case. In this case it appears from the article that the library knew it was the police and still refused them.

Look at the subsequent actions. The Steiner lady said they should have released the info in a life or death situation. That indicates to me she knew they knew they were talking to the police. Else she would have said something else, like, well you should have called the police station right away to confirm their identity. But she didn't say that.

[Doctor Raoul]

"...they had made the decision to tell the potential "unconfirmed stalker" the private information..."

And you know this because? You have no idea if they knew it was the police or your potential "unconfirmed stalker."

Their Caller ID may have identified them as the local police. Obviously they called some number back. Do you know if they did that not knowing who's it was or did they check it out and find it out to be the local PD's number?

You're making assumptions to support your theory.

[uptoolate]

Police did not know how she got in the river

Was she out with Sen. Kennedy by any chance?

[Doctor Raoul]

Have you been sold the Brooklyn Bridge yet?

You're putting it up for sale already? Hope you get more than the $15,000 you paid for it...

[saquin]

That is a hypothetical argument that does not fit the facts in this case.

Of course. But libraries have to design their policies to deal with a multitude of "hypothetical" situations.

[ConservativeMind]

The fact is, it didn't matter who it was. If they couldn't prove the voices were people at a police station, then having an actual policeman show up wouldn't have been hard. That policeman could have additionally been called in to the station to verify this was a real officer.

You don't give personal information about other people up over the phone to people who claim to be authorities.

If you are an actual doctor, would you give up your patient's private information to a random voice on the phone claiming to be a police officer?

[saquin]

Their Caller ID may have identified them as the local police.
[...]
You're making assumptions to support your theory.

As are you. What makes you think they'd have Caller ID? My library doesn't.

[Doctor Raoul]

But libraries have to design their policies to deal with a multitude of "hypothetical" situations.

Bull, let's not be livberal and wander away from the subject. This one was clearly a policy to discourage cooperation with the police under any circumstances because it demanded a court order.

Luckily, someone had some common sense to realize the folly of that in this case and overruled the rule.

For someone to go against written policy, they must be pretty confident that the policy was faulty, otherwise you're risking your job.

[plan2succeed.org]

You said, "It just seems you are anti-library rather than anti-library porn."

I am not against porn. I am not against libraries.

I am against the top ALA policy makers who, despite the law, despite the US Supreme Court, despite community standards, and despite direct requests from city governments, refuse to stop ensuring children maintain access to inappropriate material. This is not based on anything other than the obvious injustice being done by the ALA to communities nationwide despite the Courts, the law, and the people, and the resulting rapes and molestations of children in public libraries that might not be happening, but for the actions of the very top level policy makers at the ALA. My own kid was sexualized by the ALA agenda, and I am trying to prevent it from happening again to other children. I don't want to give details here as it's hard enough to keep up with comments that are on point.

[Doctor Raoul]

Nope, that's not an assumption in my reasoning toward a conclusion. I'm pointing out all the possibilities CM glossed over in his conclusion.

He doesn't know, neither do you.

How would you know if your library has Caller ID or not? You sure of that? How can you be sure of that?

I'll wait.

[plan2succeed.org]

You said, "Librarians are some of the dumbest people."

That is not true. Actaully, these librarians were smart enough to do exactly as the policy directed them. I'm not sure I could think on my feet so fast as they did. Further, I'll venture a guess to say they were also smart enough to know they should have been helping the police. But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts they were afraid for their jobs if they did not follow this policy that gets drilled into their heads by the ALA. Sometimes the victims here are the librarians themselves, the ones afraid for their careers under the watchful eye of Big Brother.