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Gauntlet thrown in battle to control cross
AP ^ | Sunday, February 4, 2007

Posted on 02/04/2007 12:25:14 PM PST by WestTexasWend

WILLIAMSBURG, Va. (AP) - As a Catholic, Vince Haley often went to Mass at the College of William and Mary's historic Wren Chapel when he was an undergraduate in the 1980s. Also a Catholic, school President Gene R. Nichol often goes to the 120-seat chapel alone at night to think in the quiet.

Both agree the chapel is a sacred space meaningful to students, alumni, faculty and staff of the public school who use it for religious services and secular events.

They clash, though, over what to do with an unadorned, 18-inch brass cross that had been displayed on the altar since about 1940.

Nichol ordered the cross removed in October to make the chapel more welcoming to students of all faiths. Previously, the cross could be removed by request; now it can be returned by request.

"It's the right thing to do to make sure that this campus is open and welcoming to everyone," Nichol said. "This is a diverse institution religiously, and we want it to become even more diverse."

Haley and more than 10,000 supporters who have signed his online petition since last fall want Nichol to put the cross back on the altar permanently. More than 1,100 students, alumni and others have signed a petition in support of Nichol since Wednesday.

In response to early protests, Nichol decided in December to return the cross to the chapel on Sundays, and he recently created a committee that will examine the role of religion at public universities and the use of the chapel.

The school's governing Board of Visitors meets Thursday and Friday, and Haley and his supporters - including some alumni who have threatened to withhold donations until the cross is permanently restored - want the panel to overrule Nichol. The board's agenda will not be available until midweek, a school spokesman said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Politics/Elections; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: academia; churchandstate; extremepc; williamandmary; wrenchapel
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1 posted on 02/04/2007 12:25:16 PM PST by WestTexasWend
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To: WestTexasWend

It is comforting to know that College of William and Mary does not have any more pressing educational problems. They have obviously solved all the more trifling affairs, like increasing the student's IQ or imparting a desire to learn.


2 posted on 02/04/2007 12:29:34 PM PST by GSlob
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To: GSlob
increasing the student's IQ or imparting a desire to learn.

please note it's a college, not a head-start program

3 posted on 02/04/2007 12:32:58 PM PST by gusopol3
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To: WestTexasWend

Nichol decided. One man decided all by himself to remove a cross that had been in that Chapel for years.

Its a Chapel. Its name Wren chapel. Chapels have crosses.

Why doesnt he change the name of it to Wren Synagogue. or Wren Mosque. Christians built the place, they placed the cross there. If he dosnt like that he could build a mosque,or a Synagogue or a Coven if he likes.Theis is Wren CHAPEL and it should have its cross.

What Wiliam and Mary needs is a President with a brain.


4 posted on 02/04/2007 12:35:09 PM PST by sgtbono2002 (I will forgive Jane Fonda, when the Jews forgive Hitler.)
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To: gusopol3

Please note the quality of the students. In a truly meritocratic setup, not many of them would be allowed in. This gives the rise to the problems I listed. But I am pleased to believe that William and Mary people have solved them.


5 posted on 02/04/2007 12:39:34 PM PST by GSlob
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To: GSlob

and where are they "increasing students' IQ's" at the age of 18+, because I want to sign up and so should you.


6 posted on 02/04/2007 12:43:51 PM PST by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3
well, that's believed to be impossible even at the age below 18. But they must have found a secret - probably by genetic brain re-engineering. By goodness, both their students and their faculty could use a heavy dollop of IQ increase, and then ask for the second helping. Instead, these idiots waste their time on the things like chapels and crosses. Amazing.
7 posted on 02/04/2007 12:52:35 PM PST by GSlob
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To: WestTexasWend

If I want to worship at a synagogue (and I have before), I expect to see the Torah scross. I expect to see the Star of David, to see grape vines.

And I would become very angry at the synagogue who removed them from a synagogue to make me feel more welcome.

Of course, I'm a Christian, so my opinion should be discounted, as is the case at W&M.


8 posted on 02/04/2007 12:57:05 PM PST by CheyennePress
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To: WestTexasWend
"It's the right thing to do to make sure that this campus is open and welcoming to everyone," Nichol said.

Please tell me how removing the historic cross accomplishes this.

9 posted on 02/04/2007 12:58:12 PM PST by Faith
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Further, why would they want a more diverse religious student body? I think that started the problem that they have here, didn't it?

I know, I'm on the wrong side of this whole diversity worship and have been for some time.


10 posted on 02/04/2007 12:58:54 PM PST by CheyennePress
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To: GSlob

I don't believe any schooling process increases a student's IQ. It should, however, increase a student's body of knowledge. The fight at W&M is being conducted in a very dignified, forthright manner. I have signed their petition.


11 posted on 02/04/2007 1:03:11 PM PST by trimom
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To: CheyennePress
If I want to worship at a synagogue (and I have before), I expect to see the Torah scross. I expect to see the Star of David, to see grape vines.

Conversely, I want the cross to stay and I'm Jewish. As far as the Jihad goes the more Christians the better. And Islamic Jihad is the problem for our time

12 posted on 02/04/2007 1:08:04 PM PST by dennisw (What one man can do another can do -- "The Edge")
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To: trimom
First of all, to avoid insulting the fellow FReepers intelligence, in my posts [excluding # 7] I've withheld the sarcasm tags.
Secondly, to increase the IQ [applicable ONLY in mid range IQ] one could teach to the test. IQ would increase by 10 points, and Spearman's g- the 'beef' part of IQ - would not budge one iota. To increase the g, one needs to crack the skull, lift the hood, and do some serious work of the cylinder block - or, less figuratively, do some genetic re-engineering on the brain. What would be involved, and how to do it, is not yet known. But one could argue [seriously, without any sarcasm] that it is precisely this knowlegde which ought to be holy grail of our idukashinalists, and that would necessarily include the William and Mary people. The fact that they could afford to busy themslves with the crosses and chapels indicates to me [the irony starts] that they must have figured all the more serious educational problems, or [the irony ends] that they are idiots.
13 posted on 02/04/2007 1:18:14 PM PST by GSlob
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To: sgtbono2002
"What Wiliam and Mary needs is a President with a brain."

I think I read that Gene Nichol was previously a state or chapter president for the ACLU.
14 posted on 02/04/2007 1:22:15 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: dennisw
Drudge links to another article:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070203/D8N2F6IO1.html


"Ro'ee Mor, a student from Israel, said that as an Orthodox Jew he was uncomfortable when he and other freshmen were taken to the chapel during orientation.

Since the cross' removal, he sometimes goes to the chapel to meditate. "I feel more an integral part of the community due to this symbolic action," he said."

If I want a quiet place to meditate or pray, I don't really care if you call it a chapel, a mosque or a temple. If I went to Jerusalem U., I might find myself at orientation in a synagogue. How horrible is that? Sheesh.
15 posted on 02/04/2007 1:29:20 PM PST by johnmark7
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To: johnmark7

When in Rome do as the Romans do. He is a visitor who should respect the Christians who founded William and Mary and the people who put the Cross in the chapel long before he came to the United States


16 posted on 02/04/2007 1:37:01 PM PST by dennisw (What one man can do another can do -- "The Edge")
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To: Texas_Jarhead

He looks a lot like Chris Farley from Saturday Night Live.

http://tonguesoffire.wordpress.com/tag/aclu/

It seems you are right about his being in the ACLU. That explains a lot. If he belonged to the Anti Christian Lawyers Union , it is no surprise that he would want to get rid of the cross, Like vampires The ACLU cannot stand to look at a cross.

I wonder if Wiliam and Mary knew this when they hired the anti Christian scholar.


17 posted on 02/04/2007 1:38:59 PM PST by sgtbono2002 (I will forgive Jane Fonda, when the Jews forgive Hitler.)
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To: sgtbono2002

It seems that like Kennedy , Kerry, Pelosi and so many others that he is a CINO, Catholic In Name Only.


18 posted on 02/04/2007 1:40:32 PM PST by sgtbono2002 (I will forgive Jane Fonda, when the Jews forgive Hitler.)
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To: GSlob

so, you are saying the administration of W & M should have just left the cross in the church in the first place. OK, I agree, but that's not the way I understood your first post.


19 posted on 02/04/2007 1:50:57 PM PST by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3

What i am saying that they should not even have bothered to have that church there at all, cross or no cross. The chapel , whatever form it might take, is irrelevant, as they have much weightier matters to deal with.


20 posted on 02/04/2007 1:57:09 PM PST by GSlob
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