Achieving Socially Conservative Ideals Through Liberal Means: Making The Case for Rudy (2008)

Red State ^ | February 4, 2007 | D.M. Eaton

[Clintonfatigued]

For this reason, contrary to conventional wisdom, a victory by Rudy Giuliani would strengthen even the socially conservative agenda in the long run. As the new Fox Dynamics Poll shows, 65 percent of Americans would be “comfortable” with a Rudy Giuliani administration. Being comfortable is a major step in the right direction. Americans might actually listen to him when gives the State of the Union (without a teleprompter no less, as he usually speaks with note cards or does so extemporaneously). A Giuliani administration that would focus on fighting the Islamic Extremists, reducing the size and scope of government, handling crisis, and putting strict constructionists on the bench who will interpret the law properly will draw more support from more people in the short term. This will translate to more understanding of conservative policies on other matters because individuals will have more patience to read the conservative ramblings of columnists and pundits. In the long run, as a result this will turn into more votes. As Winston Churchill is often quoted, "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain"...

Due to the challenges facing this country, this election cycle we Republicans need to nominate someone with an actual record of accomplishment of tackling seemingly intractable problems. As George Will said on “This Week,” “His eight years as mayor of New York were the most successful episode of conservative governance in this country in the last 50 years, on welfare and crime particularly." Giuliani, more than any other candidate (Romney comes the closest) has the record of taking on major institutions and reforming them.

[CobaltBlue]

Sorry sweatpea, do your own research.L

LOL! You are such a faker! "Five states" but you can't name any of them.

[narses]

Try google sweatpea. Or any basic polisci primer.

[narses]

Even better, try reading your own link! LOL

[freedomfiter2]

The way I read the abortion decisions and the homosexuality decisions by the SCOTUS, they're saying that neither the federal government NOR the states can outlaw consensual homosexual activity or first trimester abortions.


As decided by one branch of the federal government, overthrowing more than 200 years of precedent.

[CobaltBlue]

Sorry, you lose. I said the states abolished established churches before, or within a year of the ratification of the Constitution.

The Constitution was ratified in 1789.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/Constitution.html

The only state on that link that had an established church after 1790 is Connecticut.

[CobaltBlue]

Nevertheless, saying that neither the federal government nor state governments have the power to regulate "X" conduct is the exact opposite of regulating "X" conduct.

[narses]

LOL, you are funny. What you said first was:

The Founders, who learned their history lessons from educated teachers, learned that the admixture of religion and politics doesn't really advance either one, and we wind up with the worst of both.

And from your own source:

Massachusetts did not disestablish its official church until 1833, more than forty years after the ratification of the First Amendment; and local official establishments of religion persisted even later.

With a little help, I'm sure you can find an adult education course that will help your reading comprehension. Then you can move up to political science and history. Good luck.

[CobaltBlue]

You skipped this part: "From 1780 Massachusetts had a system which required every man to belong to a church, and permitted each church to tax its members, and did not require that it be a Congregational church. This was objected to, as in practice establishing the Congregational Church, and was abolished in 1833." Requiring people to belong to a church isn't the same as a state-established church.

[narses]

It also makes both of your claims wrong. The FF admixed a great deal and MA had a state established Church for DECADES after the Constitution. Check out those adult education classes, your passion suggests that you have a great future, once your comprehension skills and critical thinking skills catch up.

[freedomfiter2]

Nevertheless, saying that neither the federal government nor state governments have the power to regulate "X" conduct is the exact opposite of regulating "X" conduct.

The question was regarding social issues being states issues. That has always been the case until the federal government overthrew 200 years of precedent by perverting the US Constitution. Most conservatives would like a return to a constitutional federal government.

[Sun]

"RTKBA - FMCDH"

I couldn't figure out what that means. :)

[narses]

RTKBA = RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

FMCDH = FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS

[Victoria Delsoul]

Excellent. Worth repeating:

But what about the crisis of marriage and of abortion?

I believe that life is sacred and should not be treated as a commodity. I believe that the institution of marriage needs to be preserved. For now at least, good judges are best way to protect the institution of marriage and move America closer to the day when a debate on the local level can begin again about the value of human life. In order for us to have this debate in state legislatures we must win the next fight over the next Supreme Court vacancy, and if we lose the next presidential election than we will have taken a major step backwards in our quest to replace the current liberal ideology on the highest bench. More than any potential Republican president, Rudy Giuliani will have the easiest time getting strict constructionists confirmed to the Supreme Court and the lower courts.

Think of four scenarios: 1) A Hillary appointment 2) A court battle in which a thinly elected Republican administration that is led by someone who is avidly pro-life faces down a probably Democratic controlled Senate 3) A court battle in which the overwhelmingly elected Republican administration is led by the Bull Moose lover himself, Mr. McCain 4) A court battle in which pro-choice Giuliani, elected and respected by a huge majority of Americans, makes the argument that strict constructionist jurisprudence is needed in the 21st century.

He did after all strongly support Justice Roberts, Justice Alito, and he said that he would have made Justice Scalia Chief Justice. As important, Giuliani can actually make a personal case for a specific legal doctrine. The mayor is a former high ranking Justice department attorney who has argued before the Supreme Court.

To reclaim the Senate and Congress, to hold onto the White House, to build a sustainable Republican majority, and to advance conservative principles, we Republicans must unite together and support a candidate who can win the hearts of the vast majority of Americans.

Only when we win hearts can we then win minds.

Back to the Super Bowl!

[narses]

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	Supports Opposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

"Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." - Rudy Giuliani

Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it.
Rudy Giuliani

[hosepipe]

[.. If you think it can't get any worse, then you're an optimist. ..]

Oh! it can get worse.. and will too..
Republicans are; "Unite'ers not Divider's"..
Been uniteing with democrats for 6 years now..

[CobaltBlue]

You're like the squid, squirting a big cloud of ink to disguise the fact that you're running away.

You're pretending that Massachusetts had a state tax for the support of churches, when it didn't.

And you said there were five states like that, and there aren't.

[neverdem]

It's an interesting piece. I would vote for Giuliani against the dem as the less of two evils argument only.

Here's why. The author says that under him there would be less of a nanny state. It was under his administration that smoking in outdoor stadiums was banned.

Council Votes To Eliminate Most Smoking In Public Sites

The bill also makes it unlawful to smoke in many places where people have long done so, like stadiums, parks and bingo parlors."

IIRC, he didn't veto whatever law that was finally passed. P.S. There are no good studies showing significant harm from environmental tobacco smoke, just a slight increase in upper respiratory infections in the kids of smokers. Has Rudy said anything about global warming?

As far as being a great leader, he happened to be NYC's mayor on September 11, 2001, and he reassured us. My worry was a "suitcase nuke."

9/11 Tape Has Late Change on Evacuation

As part of its hearings this week in New York, the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks will report on one of the most contentious issues of that morning: the contradictory evacuation instructions given in the World Trade Center, particularly public-address announcements made by an official in the south tower urging tenants to stay in the building even though fire was raging in the other tower.

A voice message tape enhanced over the weekend by an audio expert at the request of The New York Times captures the last of the announcements made in the south tower, revealing that less than a minute before the building was struck, authorities changed their earlier instructions and ordered an evacuation.

The earlier announcements had life and death consequences, according to dozens of people who escaped from the south tower. They said scores of office workers who had started to leave the building turned back when they heard those instructions. Many others never left their offices. About 600 people were trapped and died in the upper floors of the south tower when it was struck, about 16 minutes after the north tower. The commission has not located any tapes of those earlier announcements, according to a New York official who has been briefed on the panel's findings.

Timeline: Sept. 11, 2001

IMHO, a good leader would have demanded that both WTC towers be evacuated once the second tower was hit. Rudy ordered an evacuation south of Canal Street at 11 AM, four minutes before the United Nations, about 2.5 miles to the north of Canal Street, was fully evacuated.

If he gets the GOP nomination, the MSM will go after his 911 performance with a fine toothed comb, and at least a few types of single issue voters, e.g. the ones that are only concerned about God, guns or gays, will have no reason to vote for the GOP.

I'LL END WAR: ANGRY PLEDGE: MAKE ME PREZ AND IT'S DONE! At least check out the NY Post's frontpage in comment# 1 and pics in 4, 115 and 117. There are other good pics too!

From time to time, I’ll ping on noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs. FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

[narses]

Yawn. Both your original claim (that the FF opposed admixiture of religion and government) and your subsequent claim (that all state supported churches went away within a year of the BOR) are demonstrably false, even by recourse to your own link. You need desperately some basic civics courses. Get help. Soon. Good luck.

[Sun]

Mr. Rockefeller represented "a tradition in the Republican Party I've worked hard to re-kindle - the Rockefeller, Javits, Lefkowitz tradition."

-- Rudy Giuliani, New York Times, July 9, 1992

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

NEVER FORGET


The man who predicted 9/11...
The man who predicted the 1993 WTC Bombing...
The man who was the last man out after the 1993 WTC Bombing...
The man who got all his 3,000 Morgan Stanley employees out of Tower II on 9/11...
...turned to gray dust as we saw Tower II come crashing down on him.

Also had to fight the New York Port Authority's indifference every step of the way. Including it's order on Tower II office speakers to stay put after Tower I was hit:


RICK RESCORLA

http://www.RickRescorla.com

http://www.RickRescorla.com/The%20Statue.htm

http://www.ArmchairGeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24361



NEVER FORGET

.