Africa Discovers Dark Side Of Chinese Master

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 2-4-2007 | Colin Freeman

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

I'm sorry, but I get the distinct impression that you think everyone is somehow entitled to work in an Osha certified air conditioned workplace. This is Zambia we are talking about, not America. They complain that the miners are paid as little as 53 pounds per month. That is 100 U.S. dollars per month, $1200 a year. You know how much the average Zambian makes per year? $395 dollars. Thats right, these "underpaid" miners according to the Brits are earning 3 times what they would working for domestic Zambian companies. If the miners don't like their job, they can quit anytime.

If you get the impression I think miners who risk death and lung diseases deserve to make three time more than the average Zambian, perhaps a shepherd, a clerk, or a servant then you understood me correctly. These workers are doing it for the money. There is no personal satisfaction in digging deep in the earth. I get the very distinct impression your perception of workers is they should feel gratitude and take whatever measly wage is offered them. I bet you would even hire illegal Mexicans to drive down the wages of American workers. The Chinese ruling class, the cheap labor Bush aristocrats, and the CEO's making obscene salaries and stock options peddling filth must inspire you.

[Zhang Fei]

If you get the impression I think miners who risk death and lung diseases deserve to make three time more than the average Zambian, perhaps a shepherd, a clerk, or a servant then you understood me correctly. These workers are doing it for the money. There is no personal satisfaction in digging deep in the earth. I get the very distinct impression your perception of workers is they should feel gratitude and take whatever measly wage is offered them. I bet you would even hire illegal Mexicans to drive down the wages of American workers. The Chinese ruling class, the cheap labor Bush aristocrats, and the CEO's making obscene salaries and stock options peddling filth must inspire you.

It's got nothing to do with gratitude at all. These miners are getting the prevailing market wage for their particular occupation in Zambia. If they were able to make more money working elsewhere, no one would be working for the Chinese. From your rhetoric, I get the impression you're more into socialism than the Chinese. The capitalist credo is from and to each according to his ability, not to each according to his need, from each according to his ability.

[fso301]

Are you saying the Chinese are more like Franco and Pinochet than Trotsky and Lenin? Trotsky and Lenin believed in the equality of the masses. Life sucked for all Russians under them. The Chinese seem to me to follow the Stalin model where a well cared for cadre drag the masses through Hell. It looks more communism to me. The masses have little material wealth, they have no choice, and the trains don't run on time.

China is a fascist state. It has strong central control. limited free enterprise and strong nationalism.

[zimdog]

Well, hey, that's collectivism for you: screw the masses, they don't matter.

You don't think colonialism "screwed the masses"?

[ClearCase_guy]

I'd say it's a matter of degree. The typical "gold standard" for colonial abuse is the Belgian Congo. I believe the Belgians under King Leopold established a pretty terrible reputation.

But is Mugabe in Zimbabwe any better?

It's very political correct to say "Oh, colonialism! That was bad, wasn't it?"

It is less politically correct to say "African dictators have really botched up that continent, haven't they?"

I'm not in a position to say one is worse than the other. I just say that the "evils of colonialism" are not necessarily unmatched by current native systems.

[lqclamar]

It is less politically correct to say "African dictators have really botched up that continent, haven't they?"

Un-PC, but nevertheless true. There's a reason the African continent is economically and politically backward, and it's not colonialism.

[zimdog]

I'd say it's a matter of degree.

And I'd say that if you resign yourself to what you consider to be the lesser of two evils, you still resign yourself to evil.

It's very political correct to say "Oh, colonialism! That was bad, wasn't it?"

No, it is very correct to say that colonialism was bad. Suggesting that British tyranny in Zimbabwe was good because Mugabe's tyranny in Zimbabwe is bad smacks of moral relativism.

[ClearCase_guy]

Africa is an unhappy place. It has been an unhappy place for a long time. I'm not sure that Africa has ever not been unhappy.

I stand by my statement that colonialism is the best thing that ever happened to Africa. It brought schools, hospitals, and Christianity. Were there abuses and tragedies? Yes. But I still maintain that colonialism is the best thing that ever happened to Africa. And that's a very, very sad statement. But I just can't think of anything better that has happened on that continent.

[chilepepper]

errrr, ...precisely!

[zimdog]

There have been far more schools and hospitals built in Africa since colonialism than during it, despite the fact that for most African countries, 80+ years of colonial rule ended less than half a century ago.

There was Christianity in Africa long before the European colonial empires of the 19th and 20th centuries. On the western coasts of Africa, Christianity came with Portuguese slave traders. You won't suggest that the Atlantic slave trade was the best thing that happened to Africa, will you.

[ClearCase_guy]

Slavery was there before Christianity. The followers of Islam made slavery endemic in Africa. The European explorers were not looking for slaves -- but everywhere they landed, the Africans came out and tried to sell them slaves. Eventually, the Europeans started buying.

I won't praise the Atlantic slave trade, but I will note that when Muhammad Ali came back from Zaire, he said: "I'm sure glad my grandfather got on that boat!"

[zimdog]

Slavery was there before Christianity.

I said "the Atlantic Slave Trade," not "slavery."

The European explorers were not looking for slaves

I said "slave traders," not "explorers."

but everywhere they landed, the Africans came out and tried to sell them slaves.

That African slave traders tried to sell slaves to European slave traders is unsurprising, but to suggest that unsuspecting Europeans were somehow duped into buying and selling human beings in Africa is ridiculous.

[zimdog]

The followers of Islam made slavery endemic in Africa.

I'll remind you that a majority of slaves in the Americas came from the Bight of Biafra, the Congo Basin (the inspiration for Muhammad Ali's famous quote), and Angola. There are very few Muslims living there today. Historically, there has been almost no Muslim influence in these regions.

[ClearCase_guy]

My original topic was the botch that African leaders have made of Africa in the post-colonial era. You keep switching the topic. Now you're lecturing me that I'm not discussing the Atlantic Slave Trade enough.

I'll just say we disagree on things. Have a nice day.

[zimdog]

I made a point that Christianity came to the west coast of Africa with the Atlantic Slave Trade, not with the fantasy benevolent colonialism that your original post had praised.

Yes, I'd say we disagree on things, but have a nice day.