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To: shrinkermd
capitalism will produce losers as well as winners

This is so incredibly short-sighted. I always liked Zig Ziglar's comment, similar to the above: "Failure is an event, not a person". In a capitalistic society, even losers can turn around a losing situation. That's what is lost on nearly everyone, even some "conservative" economists.

And I'm SICK TO DEATH (yep, I'm shouting) about how money isn't everything. Of course money isn't everything. What money IS is a way of achieving what you want out of life.

Imagine if you were always well fed, well clothed, and had a roof over your head, but no disposable income. Your basic needs would be taken care of, but who only has basic needs?

Wouldn't you be much better off, by any measure, if you had the disposable income to travel to France, the liberals' favorite country, to see how our "betters" live? Or to be able to travel more often to see your favorite Aunt Martha, the one who raised you when your mother was dying? Or to express your deep appreciation to your wife with jewelry for the wonderful way she cares for you?

What money allows you to do is take care of the top level of Maslow's hierarchy of needs - self-actualization. To have the freedom to do what you really want to do, what really satisfies you in live. Anyone who would deny me the fruits of my labors, driven by my intense desire to be self-acutalize, is nothing more than a petty dictator who believes they know more what's good for me than I do.

50 posted on 02/02/2007 7:07:20 PM PST by Hardastarboard (DemocraticUnderground.com is an internet hate site.)
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To: Hardastarboard

What this article reminds me about is the fact that the word "Capitalism" was invented by the left to make "Economic Freedom" sound nasty and despicable. Capitalism is a word invented by the enemies of freedom, yet we have all capitulated and use it anyway. Such is the very nature of propagandistic techniques.


51 posted on 02/02/2007 7:18:16 PM PST by LloydofDSS (Christian who believes in freedom.)
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To: Hardastarboard
What money IS is a way of achieving what you want out of life.

Money is certainly that, but it's also a whole lot more.

As the incredibly prescient Miss Rand put it:

Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value.

Without goods and services produced which people desire money is nothing but prettily colored bits of paper with absolutely no intrinsic value of its own.

Rand continues:

"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others."

Money is the ultimate symbol of the trust a society places in its members. Without that trust money once again becomes nothing more than worthless paper. We use money as a store for the excess value of our time. The more valuable our time is to the other members of our society, the more money we earn with which to store that value.

When a society ceases to trust its own, money becomes worthless and one is back to barter. For proof of this one need look no farther than a country like Zimbabwe where 'inflation' is running something like 100% a week IIRC.

It's not that the actual value of the goods in Zimbabwe is rising. A loaf of bread is, after all, still the same on Friday as it was the previous Monday.

What's happened is that that bond of trust between the members of Zim society is gone so they no longer have a medium of exchange worthy of trust. Zim government doesn't trust its citizens and vice versa, and the citizens no longer trust each other. Therefore what they use to trade with one another, money, has become worthless.

What money allows you to do is take care of the top level of Maslow's hierarchy of needs - self-actualization

This is absolutely correct and it's one of the best short explanations I've ever seen as to what the power of money actually is. It's not that it can buy pretty baubles, fancy cars, or attract the attention of attractive members of the opposite sex (although that is a nice side-benefit to having money...LOL)

Anyone who would deny me the fruits of my labors, driven by my intense desire to be self-acutalize, is nothing more than a petty dictator who believes they know more what's good for me than I do.

Once again you show why I consider you to be one of the finer posters on the forum. This is an incredibly important point which even most conservatives are unable to articulate. You are to be congratulated for making the point so succinctly.

Rand said it a bit differently, but the idea is the same:

"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another--their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun.

There are only two ways for people to deal with each other in this world. We can freely and voluntarily trade with each other with absolutely the bare minimum of interference from Government which should take only that amount it absolutely requires in order to do some very basic and clearly defined tasks. Our Founders understood this and laid out those tasks very clearly in our Constitution.

Or we can devalue our fellow citizens by implying that they somehow obtained their money fraudulently and then force them to our will with the muzzles of guns. There are no other ways no matter what anyone tells you, although Hillary and her ilk will try. They'll usually do it by mouthing platitudes about 'the common good' when we both know there really is no such thing.

Finally Miss Rand left us with a warning which we ignore to our mortal peril:

When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors--when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you--when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

This last line is why the Zim 'dollar, the Cuban peso, the Russian Ruble, and the ChiCom yuan are not used internationally and most likely never will be. Money will not permit itself to be debased like that. It can't. Rational people won't trust a 'currency' which isn't based on the idea that people own themselves, even if they can't articulate that idea aloud.

Lastly there is this:

"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other--and your time is running out."

Time is indeed running out. Just today we had a 'serious' Presidential candidate utter out loud on national television the idea that she wants to 'take those profits' from a lawful industry. The mere fact that she felt safe saying such a thing should chill sane people down to their very bones.

After all, if she can take it from them she can take it from anyone. And once that process starts (we're already long past that start, but you know what I mean) the end result is an utterly predictable foregone conclusion.

And it's never pretty.

L

62 posted on 02/02/2007 11:33:50 PM PST by Lurker (Europeans killed 6 million Jews. As a reward they got 40 million Moslems. Karma's a bitch.)
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To: Hardastarboard
To those who would suggest that money is the root of all eeeeeeeeevil... I give you this excerpt from the novel Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand.

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Anconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor--your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money, Is this what you consider evil?

"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions--and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.

"But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made--before it can be looted or mooched--made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he has produced.

"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will. Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your effort except the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to trade you his effort in return. Money permits you to obtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders. Money demands of you the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their gain, not their loss--the recognition that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your misery--that you must offer them values, not wounds--that the common bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of goods. Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best that your money can find. And when men live by trade--with reason, not force, as their final arbiter--it is the best product that wins, the best performance, the man of best judgment and highest ability--and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?

"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality--the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind.

"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants: money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

"Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth--the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one, would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve the mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

"Money is your means of survival. The verdict you pronounce upon the source of your livelihood is the verdict you pronounce upon your life. If the source is corrupt, you have damned your own existence. Did you get your money by fraud? By pandering to men's vices or men's stupidity? By catering to fools, in the hope of getting more than your ability deserves? By lowering your standards? By doing work you despise for purchasers you scorn? If so, then your money will not give you a moment's or a penny's worth of joy. Then all the things you buy will become, not a tribute to you, but a reproach; not an achievement, but a reminder of shame. Then you'll scream that money is evil. Evil, because it would not pinch-hit for your self-respect? Evil, because it would not let you enjoy your depravity? Is this the root of your hatred of money?

"Or did you say it's the love of money that's the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It's the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money--and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it.

"Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.

"But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride or self-esteem, men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being rich--will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the guilt--and of his life, as he deserves.

"Then you will see the rise of the men of the double standard--the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money--the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law--men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims--then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors--when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you--when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

"You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest productive civilization and you wonder why it's crumbling around you, while you're damning its life-blood--money. You look upon money as the savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back to the edge of your cities. Throughout men's history, money was always seized by looters of one brand or another, whose names changed, but whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force and to keep the producers bound, demeaned, defamed, deprived of honor. That phrase about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor of slaves--slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by somebody's mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, there was little to conquer, Yet through all the centuries of stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers--as industrialists.

"To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money--and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being--the self-made man--the American industrialist.

"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose--because it contains all the others--the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to make money.' No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity--to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.

"Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide--as, I think, he will.

"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other--and your time is running out."

(italics mine)
89 posted on 02/03/2007 7:18:54 AM PST by snowrip (Liberal? YOU HAVE NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT. Actually, you lack even a legitimate excuse.)
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