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Robert E. Lee: Icon of the South -- and American Hero
American Spectator ^ | 1/30/07 | HW Crocker III

Posted on 01/30/2007 11:33:39 AM PST by RayStacy

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To: Towsoncrs
Just a side note... Lee is the only cadet to ever graduate West Point without a single demerit, he was also second in his class.

Another side note...George Washington Custis Lee graduated from West Point while his father was superintendant. Unlike his father, Custis Lee graduated first in his class.

And the answer to the other trivia question nobody seems to have asked - who graduated first in the class of 1829 - Charles Mason of New York.

81 posted on 01/30/2007 3:19:06 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
He was actually a political heavy-weight in Illinois. He served a number of terms in the legislature and was twice candidate for the Senate. He was one of the founders of the Republican party in the state and one of the leading attorneys. His speeches made nationwide between his second Senatorial bid and his presidential bid gave him a national follwoing. He was not a 'political nobody.'

The Lincoln-Douglas debates may have made a name for Lincoln, but what most folks apparently overlook is that Douglas won the 1956 Senate contest in Illinois. Before he was elected in 1860, Lincoln was pretty much the equivalent of Alan Keyes.

Who were those supporters and how did that support manifest itself?

Lincoln was paid fantastic sums of money to argue cases on behalf of various clients in the railroad industry. He served as the general counsel of the Illinois Central Railroad (if I remember correctly from my reading) for years. And he had a controversial real estate deal in Council Bluffs, Iowa that wasn't very different than the one that has put Harry Reid in the news in recent weeks.

But I'm still puzzled over your statement about the national rail system, something many would argue we still don't have today, and your statements about the improvements for the Ohio River valley. Are you saying that the improvements the federal government made along the Mississippi did not also benefit the South?

The Civil War has effectively obscured one of the most important historical developments of Lincoln's presidency -- the Pacific Railway Act of 1862. The establishment of a national railroad policy -- including the implementation of a standard railroad guage for the entire nation -- would have been nearly impossible under the vision of autonomous, soveriegn states that had been held by this country's founders.

And while any improvements along the Mississippi River system would have benefitted both North and South to some extent, the truth is the Mississippi basin was far more crucial to the North than the South. If individual states had retained their own sovereignty, the South would have effectively controlled much of the maritime commerce -- and nearly all of the international trade -- in an area between Pittsburgh and the Great Plains. You simply can't get a ship or barge from the Gulf of Mexico to anywhere in the Mississippi River system without going through the old Confederacy.

82 posted on 01/30/2007 3:22:12 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: x

Everything you've said there about Lee would also apply to Lincoln.


83 posted on 01/30/2007 3:24:18 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Ok now correct me if I'm wrong but Stone Mountain is...a mountain?

Check my post #47. A few jackhammers and...,

84 posted on 01/30/2007 3:28:42 PM PST by groanup (War is not the answer, victory is.)
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To: Moose4

Stone Mountain is a Georgia State Park. It is operated by a private company because, long ago, the state and the idiots at the capital decided Stone Mountain should compete with Six Flags. When I was a kid you drove out there and halfway up the mountain. There was nothing there. Now it's a big amusement park and an abomination.


85 posted on 01/30/2007 3:33:35 PM PST by groanup (War is not the answer, victory is.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Well, I suppose changing Lee's likeness to MLK would just about destroy it ;'}


86 posted on 01/30/2007 3:37:53 PM PST by rockrr (Never argue with a man who buys ammo in bulk...)
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To: Alberta's Child
Everything you've said there about Lee would also apply to Lincoln.

Everything that I've said about a general would apply to the elected president of the country? I guess, but one was the elected president of the country and had constitutional responsibilities, and the other was a general who got in over his head.

Sure, if Lincoln had thrown up his hands, there'd have been no war. But a country whose leaders simply give up doesn't survive. A country whose generals don't take up arms against it can make out pretty well.

87 posted on 01/30/2007 3:40:11 PM PST by x
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To: rockrr
Well, I suppose changing Lee's likeness to MLK would just about destroy it ;'}

I don't think King would look good on a horse.

88 posted on 01/30/2007 5:00:10 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur; 13Sisters76; rockrr; groanup
Groanup's correct. It'll be easier and faster to Taliban this monument with today's tools and Federal Financing that it did to carve it.

As usual, easier to tear down than to build.

89 posted on 01/30/2007 5:06:02 PM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: Alberta's Child
The Lincoln-Douglas debates may have made a name for Lincoln, but what most folks apparently overlook is that Douglas won the 1956 Senate contest in Illinois. Before he was elected in 1860, Lincoln was pretty much the equivalent of Alan Keyes.

Not at all. Keyes was a carpetbagger while Lincoln was a long time resident of the state. And what you overlook is that Lincoln lost the Senate races in 1858 AND 1854. But the debates in 1858 helped make him a national figure and by the time of his Cooper Union address his reputation was already established.

Lincoln was paid fantastic sums of money to argue cases on behalf of various clients in the railroad industry. He served as the general counsel of the Illinois Central Railroad (if I remember correctly from my reading) for years. And he had a controversial real estate deal in Council Bluffs, Iowa that wasn't very different than the one that has put Harry Reid in the news in recent weeks.

Lincoln was well-paid as an attorney, no doubt about that. But your claim that he was some sort of tool of the railroads or that they poured massive sums into his campaign are still unsubstantiated. And I believe that as Ambrose himself points out, the President chose the eastern terminus of the Union Pacific, and that was in Omaha and not Council Bluffs. Hardly calculated to send Lincoln's land values soaring.

The Civil War has effectively obscured one of the most important historical developments of Lincoln's presidency -- the Pacific Railway Act of 1862. The establishment of a national railroad policy -- including the implementation of a standard railroad guage for the entire nation -- would have been nearly impossible under the vision of autonomous, soveriegn states that had been held by this country's founders.

Both the platforms for the Breckenridge faction and the Douglas faction of the Democratic Party also called for a transcontinental railway. Does that mean that they were for a national railroad, too?

And while any improvements along the Mississippi River system would have benefitted both North and South to some extent, the truth is the Mississippi basin was far more crucial to the North than the South. If individual states had retained their own sovereignty, the South would have effectively controlled much of the maritime commerce -- and nearly all of the international trade -- in an area between Pittsburgh and the Great Plains. You simply can't get a ship or barge from the Gulf of Mexico to anywhere in the Mississippi River system without going through the old Confederacy.

I disagree. The largest city in the South was New Orleans on the Mississippi. It was also the largest port. In the year prior to the rebellion almost 60% all cotton exported from the country left through New Orleans, and the only way for that cotton to reach the city was via the Mississippi River. Improvements made to the river were invaluable to the South's economic prosperity.

90 posted on 01/30/2007 5:30:24 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: sam_paine
As usual, easier to tear down than to build.

It takes a lot of people to build a barn. It takes a jackass five minutes to kick it down.

Ann Richards

91 posted on 01/30/2007 7:03:22 PM PST by groanup (War is not the answer, victory is.)
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To: Rte66

bookmark


92 posted on 01/30/2007 7:42:05 PM PST by Rte66
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To: stainlessbanner
Jan 19, 1806 was a GREAT DAY in VA!

free dixie,sw

93 posted on 01/30/2007 10:00:04 PM PST by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: GeorgefromGeorgia
sherman deserved the SAME fate as GEN Yamashita suffered, as he was EQUALLY guilty of the SAME war crimes & crimes against humanity as Yamashita was.

free dixie,sw

94 posted on 01/30/2007 10:01:57 PM PST by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Ah, the spawn of satan's birthday is but four days after mine.. no wonder i thought there was something dubious about that day, considering some dumb person on their cell phone totaled my car on that day last year..


95 posted on 01/30/2007 10:04:53 PM PST by Schwaeky (Welcome to America--Now speak English or LEAVE!)
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To: Non-Sequitur
WOW, there's a TRIVIA question for you???

Charles Mason graduated from WPMA & did WHAT???

free dixie,sw

96 posted on 01/30/2007 10:04:57 PM PST by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: Shadowstrike

I thought that was Nathan Bedford Forrest day... :) (sarc)


97 posted on 01/30/2007 10:11:20 PM PST by Schwaeky (Welcome to America--Now speak English or LEAVE!)
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To: stand watie
Charles Mason graduated from WPMA & did WHAT???

Oh you'd like him, stand. He later moved west. He lived in Wisconsin for a time then moved to Iowa and was a prosecutor, legislator, judge, and journalist. He was a Democrat, and during the war he would have been called a Copperhead.

98 posted on 01/31/2007 3:54:56 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Shadowstrike
"...you should be wishing that Gen. Lee was still around today. A true gentleman to be sure, he was also one of the most brilliant tacticians..."

Except for the blunder at Gettysburg. That horrible charge by Pickett's men, despite their incredible losses, actually took the Union position. Lee's failure to reinforce them, either through aversion to any more loss of life, or bad intel, was the decisive error in that battle.
BTW, to those thinking I'm one of the coulda/shoulda won types: I don't think the war should have been fought at all, but I'm glad the Confederacy did not win. Our country is better United.
99 posted on 01/31/2007 7:24:34 AM PST by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( ISLAMA DELENDA EST!)
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To: Non-Sequitur
THANKS! i'd never heard of him.

free dixie,sw

100 posted on 01/31/2007 9:17:00 AM PST by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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