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Fleischer: Plame came up over lunch ["Ambassador Wilson was sent by his wife," Fleischer recalled..]
Yahoo ^

Posted on 01/29/2007 10:34:34 AM PST by Sub-Driver

Fleischer: Plame came up over lunch

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer 39 minutes ago

Former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer testified Monday that then-colleague I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby told him over lunch that the wife of a prominent war critic worked at the CIA.

Fleischer said the conversation happened June 7, 2003, days before Libby told investigators he was surprised to learn about the CIA operative from a reporter. That discrepancy is at the heart of Libby's perjury and obstruction trial.

Fleischer, who was the chief White House spokesman for the first 2 1/2 years of President Bush's first term, said Monday that Libby invited him to lunch to discuss Fleischer's planned departure from the White House. He said it was the first time he and Libby had eaten lunch together.

They talked about Fleischer's career plans and their shared interest in the Miami Dolphins football team, Fleischer testified. He can't remember who brought it up but he said the conversation then turned to the growing controversy over former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who accused the White House of ignoring prewar intelligence on Iraq.

"Ambassador Wilson was sent by his wife," Fleischer recalled Libby saying. "His wife works for the CIA."

Fleischer said Libby also used the woman's name, Valerie Plame, and told him it was "hush hush."

"My sense is that Mr. Libby was telling me this was kind of newsy," Fleischer said.

Fleischer testified under an immunity deal with prosecutors and arrived in court with his attorneys. He sought the deal because he discussed Plame with reporters. Libby's attorneys plan to argue during cross-examination that the immunity deal makes Fleischer's testimony less credible.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ari; bs; cialeak; fitzmas; fleischer; getbush; libby; partisanwitchhunt; plame; plamegate; showtrial
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To: gusopol3
whatever happened to "I don't specifically recall?" it worked for Clintonistas all those years

Libby forgot about that and did specifically recall. His mistake- now he's paying for it. The problem Fitz may have is he has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Libby couldn't possibly forget the info about the twit Wilson over a period of a few days. So Wilson's importance will have to be inflated to justify saying Wilson was memorable.

How does one prove a negative? Well, while trying to prove a negative to a scientist or a debater os one thing, it's quite another to try to prove a negative to a jury. That's a much easier task.

Now if Fitz has to establish a motive - to prove the alleged misstatement was to intentionally deceive the investigators, then how is Fitz to explain what could motivate a man who was not the leaker to perjure himself.

Libby's in deep doo even though there's no underlying crime- perjury is at the core of our justice system. In Clinton's case it wasn't so much the sex as the press claimed, it was the purjury that made Clinton a real prick.

Whatever comes of it it is a step in a process the Libs are pursuing. Libby's not the end goal.

61 posted on 01/29/2007 1:09:30 PM PST by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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To: redgirlinabluestate
Later it emerged that the information the White House had used “was wrong in its entirety.” http://www.roryoconnor.org/blog/?p=213 What? I thought the 16 words were later found to be true and that Bush and Blair are standing by them. Why would Fleischer say this? Are those the blogger's words or Ari's? They are in quotes, so I am assuming Ari said it. More confusing now...

It's not clear whether that sentence about the 16 words being entirely wrong is a paraphrase of what Ari said or the blogger's editorial comment. I'm guessing the latter.

62 posted on 01/29/2007 1:10:13 PM PST by alnick
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To: Bommer
Libbys problem is not challenging Fitzgerld on the validity of Plume being covert. Unless she is covert, no law was broken, period! This trial should have been over in 5 minutes!

No way Jose! Regardless of whether investigators determine a law was broken, you cant lie to an FBI agent or to a federal grand jury. Libby did both, multiple times.

63 posted on 01/29/2007 1:21:54 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Preachin'
Libbys problem is not challenging Fitzgerld on the validity of Plume being covert. Unless she is covert, no law was broken, period! This trial should have been over in 5 minutes!"

It was always my understanding that the Judge disallowed that in the grand jury

It is irrelevant!! You cant lie to Federal investigators (FBI) or to a federal grand jury when they conducting an investigation. Libby did both, multiple times. Break the law, and it comes back to bite you. Fact that the investigation determined that no underlying crime was committed, doesnt mean that you are off the hook. It's irrelevant to whether you lied and attempted to mislead the investigation.

64 posted on 01/29/2007 1:25:37 PM PST by Dave S
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To: freespirited
This is idiotic. I still can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, and these people claim to remember who told them what on which day in 2003.

During the month or two prior to his being questioned about the "leak" the issue that was foremost on his mind was who is this guy Wilson and why did they send him to Niger. He was tasked with finding out and then countering what Wilson said. He went to the CIA and State Department to get answers. They told him that his wife who works at the agency recommended that he go. He reported back to Cheney according to Cheney's testimony. He also headed several staff meetings where he discussed the fact. Then he has lunch with Ari Fleischer where he wanted Ari to leak the facts to the press. Then two or three days later, he hears for the first time that Wilson's wife Plame works for the CIA from Tim Russert who didnt know. Give me a break. You dont get to be top man on the Vice Presidents staff if your memory is that bad. He had copious written notes that he didnt realize that this assistant had given to the feds. So he lied. He could have referred to these notes or said I dont recall but no, he flat out lied and he is a lawyer too. He should know better.

65 posted on 01/29/2007 1:33:57 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Bommer
If that is so, then I don't understand whats the charge? The judge disavows the law, throws out the rule of the law, so no law could have been possibly broken! Fitzgerald who crux of his argument is that a covert CIA agents name was leaked out is now null and void is it not?

The charges have nothing to do with leaking a covert agent's name. Libby is charged with lying to FBI agents and to a federal grand jury. Plame's "covert" status is irrelevant.

66 posted on 01/29/2007 1:36:32 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Dave S

In his copious notes handed over to the Prosecutor, Libby has only one one sentence reference to her name--and that is in connection with Cheney having told him on June 12. Most of the other notes deal with far more significant matters, like reports of attempted assassination of the President, warning of forthcoming terror attacks, etc.
Every single prosecution witness has admitted that at the outset her name and connection to this matter were insignificant and unmemorable.

Fleisher says he told Gregory and Dickerson. Gregory said when the discussion was did Russet now--"Nobody ever called me." Dickerson said Fleischer when asked if Cheney didn't send Wilson who did--told him to check with the CIA.
Not a single witness has demonstrated an accurate memory but only one is being charged with serious crimes for this.
I must strongly disagree with Dave S's analysis.


67 posted on 01/29/2007 1:42:42 PM PST by the Real fifi
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To: Bommer
The initial charge is lying to the Grand Jury about Plames status. But Plame had no status that is a violation of the law

NO, NO, NO. He is charged with lying to the FBI and the federal grand jury about how and when he found out that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. He said he heard that from Russert so he couldnt have been telling that to reporters. They were telling him that. Unfortunately several people in the CIA, several people at state told him much earlier and Libby used that information reporting it to Cheney and discussing what to do about it in various staff meetings. Then he tried to get Fleischer to leak to press. When questionned about it, he concocted a story that is laughable on its face. He had known for months what he said Russert has just told him. He lied. Whether or not Plame was covert is totally irrelevant.

68 posted on 01/29/2007 1:42:55 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Brilliant
It certainly does not prove that he was not surprised when he learned it from a reporter. All it proves is that he repeated it to Fleischer

He repeated it to Fleishcher a week before he heard it from Russert (assuming he ever did .. Russert said he never told him because the first he heard of it was when he read Novaks column). He also told CHeney, Rove and others numerous times months in advance of talking to Fleisher.

69 posted on 01/29/2007 1:45:29 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Red Steel
Then what is the charge?

Basically its lying to federal investigators (FBI agents) and to a federal grand jury. Nothing to do with whether Plame is covert so that doesnt matter.

70 posted on 01/29/2007 1:47:08 PM PST by Dave S
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To: freespirited
But I am still skeptical of the idea that all these people can pinpoint what was said

They only had lunch together once so its pretty easy.

71 posted on 01/29/2007 1:49:19 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Preachin'

Just like a judge to try to reduce eveything to process. Forget the facts, and full stem ahead!


72 posted on 01/29/2007 1:51:31 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Courdeleon02

This trial is a joke. That being said, Scooter Libby did lie to the grand jury. I am convinced of that. Cathy Martin and Ari Fleischer have been convincing in detailing that they learned about Valerie Plame from Scooter Libby before Scooter Libby claimed to learn about her from Tim Russert.

If Scooter is telling Ari about Valerie Plame by name on the seventh, then claiming he heard about her for the first time from a reporter on the tenth, it's not a memory problem. He lied. No, it's not the end all and be all. But I and many others were upset when Clinton lied under oath as well. Scooter committed this crime and does need to take his knocks.


73 posted on 01/29/2007 1:55:23 PM PST by dogbyte12
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To: mass55th
Frankly, having Fleischer testify doesn't prove that one way or the other. Just because he makes a statement over lunch, it doesn't mean he remembered that statement months later, especially since the lunch consisted of other topics as well. Just because I know a fact, doesn't mean I remember when or who I told it to in a casual lunch conversation. Fitzgerald is grasping at straws.

Libby's top prority over several months was dealing with wilson and his claims. He sought out information on wilson and was told that Wilson was sent to Niger because his wife who works at the CIA recommended him. This was relayed to Libby in writing and verbally. He reported this information to Cheney. He held two or three staff meetings where dealing with Wilson and Plame charges was the subject of the meeting. He goes to Fleischer to get him to leak the information to the press and after all this, he tells one or two reporters this information but then he's got the gall to say doesnt recall ever hearing any of this until some poor reporter told him. One who didnt even know the information. Libby is either totally incompetent or a liar. Libby had access to his notes which clearly indicate what he knew and when. You would think a lawyer appearing before a grand jury would utilze his notes to refresh his memory. Wouldnt you?

74 posted on 01/29/2007 1:58:26 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Bommer
This trial should have been over in 5 minutes!

That sick scumbag Fitzgerald's investigation should have been over in five minutes.

75 posted on 01/29/2007 1:59:10 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: STARWISE
Am I close to the lilliputian prosecutorial character of Fitzie? No, its more serious than that, but not by much. Scooter Libby told the grand jury he had no idea who Valerie Plame was until Tim Russert brought her up to him on the 10th. Ari just testified that Scooter Libby, on the seventh, three days before the Russert Conversation, that Scooter told him about Valerie Plame by name, and even listed the department of the CIA she worked in. That is not an error in memory. Libby lied. He didn't break the law by outing her. He lied to the grand jury. There is no way you can be telling Ari about Valerie Plame and her department in the CIA and forget about it, then "remember" that Tim Russert told you about it 3 days later. He lied. Same thing Clinton did. I will be intellectually honest here and say that he needs to be convicted on this. If the president wants to pardon him fine, but Libby lied about a crucial fact in this non-case when he was under oath. It was wrong. Fitzgerald could have decided not to prosecute, but what kind of message does that send? He was investigating if a crime took place, and to know that he needed the facts of what happened, and Libby tried to snow job him. Remember, at the time Libby testified, it was thought that the reporters were going to get away with refusing to testify. So he decided to lie about what he knew, blame it on somebody who wouldn't testify to contradict him. If I was the prosecutor I would be pissed for him wasting my time. There would have been zero charges here if Scooter told the truth.
76 posted on 01/29/2007 2:00:42 PM PST by dogbyte12
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To: Steve_Seattle
Fleischer might be covering his own ass - wasn't there an allegation that Fleischer learned of Plame from the classified memo to Colin Powell, during the trip to Africa (?), and that he illegally leaked that to someone?

Doesnt help much since the memo in question was written to Libby and copied Powell. It was from some assistant secretary of state reporting back to Libby and the VIce President why Wilson was sent to Africa.

77 posted on 01/29/2007 2:01:55 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Dave S

Now, I know you are pulling this out of the ether.

It is uncontested that he told investigators from day one he heard this detail from Cheney on June 12.
He says he forgot about it in the press of business(because as every witness said it was not signficant then)but he had a "eureka" moment if you will when reporters started askng him about it.

Among the reporters who obviously knew were Woodward, Novak, Cooper, Mitchell"everyone knew", and now, if one believes Fleischer, Gregory and Dickerson.
Also who knew but were not questioned Kristof and Corn and Judis, etc.
And some like Russert were barely questioned.


78 posted on 01/29/2007 2:02:00 PM PST by the Real fifi
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To: Sub-Driver
Is anyone other than me disturbed by the fact that Plame had the authority to send her husband on a government all expense paid trip to Africa for any reason? How much did the trip cost $10,000 $20,000 $30,00? Was she really high up enough in the CIA to do this?
79 posted on 01/29/2007 2:02:07 PM PST by Ditter
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To: Dave S

I can't believe some of the people here. I guarantee you they weren't acting this way when slick willie lied under oath. He could have argued that lying about a consentual affair wasn't material and it could have been dropped too.

But that would have been wrong. He lied under oath. Libby lied under oath. Are we so sinking to the democrat standards that we are only bothered when their side does it?


80 posted on 01/29/2007 2:02:39 PM PST by dogbyte12
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