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To: khnyny
Seems to me, Zhang Fei, that the Chinese have been eagerly hopping onto the Western bandwagon, as it sure as hell beats anything they've been able to conjure up in the last few centuries.

In much the same way the West hopped on the Chinese bandwagon before Chinese power and creativity went into eclipse a few centuries ago. You think the civil service that replaced aristocracies in the West is a Western invention? You think paper money is a Western invention? And yet I would say that the average Westerner wouldn't consider himself sinified, would he?

The Chinese are borrowing Western technologies in the same way that Westerners who were running around in animal skins a couple of thousand years ago borrowed Asian* technologies. But look at it this way - a few centuries ago, the Chinese were saying "alrighty then" to the Western upstarts who were starting to show up in their neck of the woods**. They're not saying that any more. And in time, you won't be saying "alrighty then", as the Chinese and the Indians begin to regain their former importance in the world (perhaps coming to blows in a contest for pre-eminence), and Europe fades into irrelevance. Besides, it's not just China that is right in rejecting welfare statism - if we follow the European example and descend further into welfare statism, we, too, will follow the EUropeans into the dustbin of history.

* I use "Asian" not in a coherent geographic, cultural or ethnic sense, but in the sense the Greeks used it - not Europe and not Africa.

** Note also that Western pre-eminence isn't what it used to be. At their zenith, the Chinese thought they had reached the end of history - from then on, every development of consequence was pre-ordained to happen in China. They paid for it dearly in the succeeding centuries. If you think that we are somehow at the end of history with the West on top, you need to re-evaluate your premises. EUrope is destined to become an open-air museum, as it descends deeper and deeper into a welfare statism that simultaneously subsidizes the high fertility rates of its non-productive and seditious Islamic hordes and drives its economy into the ground. Whether we follow in their footsteps depends on whether the American voter, in his wisdom, ultimately rejects welfare statism and open borders.

26 posted on 01/26/2007 10:14:49 PM PST by Zhang Fei
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To: Zhang Fei
I'm not bashing "eastern" culture as you call it, just making a small observation about the last few centuries. I'm well aware of the Chinese contributions throughout history.:)

Every world power has risen and fallen throughout history. I think everyone understands that little factoid, the only question is the duration of their supremacy.

Thanks for the window into your thought processes, btw, lol.
52 posted on 01/27/2007 7:16:27 AM PST by khnyny
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To: Zhang Fei
Whether we follow in their footsteps depends on whether the American voter, in his wisdom, ultimately rejects welfare statism and open borders.

I agree with your overall assessment, but I think its already too late for the West, the USA included. It will not be a surprise within twenty years to see a reverse "brain drain" begin from Europe and the USA to China and India. The USA's current world preeminence was built on values and societal energies that no longer exist in much of the country - and the lone bright spot, our technological innovation, is not something we have all to ourselves. The fumbling at NASA and the lack of corporate interest in private space ventures is a good metaphor for our whole economic/military edifice. Like the Romans, we'll ride the crest of the wave for a while longer, then the end will come. I hope for a slow fade and a gradual realignment of powers rather than the end Rome suffered, but that's hard to predict.

Among the Chinese people I know, the elites are, as you say, extraordinarily self-confident bordering on arrogant, while the "little people" are extraordinarily deferential and self-effacing toward their betters. Looks like an American liberal's dream culture. ;)

64 posted on 01/27/2007 10:09:27 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: Zhang Fei

Very interesting points throughout this thread.

The U.S. reaped the rewards of capitalism rooted in individual freedom. You would have to argue this system outpaced any other in history. Can we sustain it in light of new factors that threaten the American experiment?

China appears to be a centrally controlled economy that benefits the state over the individual with a sprinkling of capitalism. Can those two co-exist? At some point does the individual become bigger than the government in China?

How much do you think corruption will rear it's ugly head as China's wealth grows?


72 posted on 01/27/2007 2:09:01 PM PST by volunbeer (Dear heaven.... we really need President Reagan again!)
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