Posted on 01/26/2007 12:29:42 PM PST by Ol' Sparky
WASHINGTON - Rudy Giuliani came out yesterday against President Bush's call for a ban on gay marriage.
The former mayor, who Vice President Cheney joked the other night is after his job, vigorously defended the President on his post-9/11 leadership but made clear he disagrees with Bush's proposal to rewrite the Constitution to outlaw gays and lesbians from tying the knot.
"I don't think it's ripe for decision at this point," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
"I certainly wouldn't support [a ban] at this time," added Giuliani, who lived with a gay Manhattan couple when he moved out of Gracie Mansion during his nasty divorce.
Giuliani took his gay rights stance just as speculation hits a fever pitch that he's in line to replace Cheney on Bush's ticket.
Cheney and New York Sen. Hillary Clinton fueled the vice presidential talk at Saturday night's Gridiron Dinner in Washington.
To a mock question from the audience asking Cheney to step aside for someone with "new energy and vitality," the veep turned to Giuliani and zinged: "You need to do a better job of disguising your handwriting."
Asked yesterday whether he would run with Bush if Cheney stepped aside, the mayor-turned-businessman mimicked Marlon Brando in "The Godfather": "An offer I couldn't refuse, right?" But he didn't say no.
Giuliani conceded he's "out of sync" with his party's conservative base, but likened himself to other moderate GOP stars like Gov. Pataki and Calif. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.
And while he was cagey on the veep talk, the former mayor said he will run for elected office again, but didn't say which one.
Giuliani is considered a leading GOP hopeful in the 2008 presidential race, though he may decide to challenge Clinton in her 2006 Senate reelection bid.
But for now, Giuliani has been making the rounds burnishing the President's terror-fighting credentials and joining in Republican attempts to portray Kerry as a would-be waffler-in-chief.
He once more defended Bush's use of footage of a flag-draped coffin coming out of Ground Zero in controversial new political ads.
"To leave [Sept. 11] out of a political campaign when you're running for reelection cuts out half your leadership," he said. "I mean, it would make no sense."
But Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who ran against Bush in 2000, disagreed.
"I might not have used the ad of the coffin coming out, or the body coming out of the ruins with a flag on it," he told ABC's "This Week."
Originally published on March 8, 2004
Well, good luck trying to win an election against Hillary Clinton without those social conservatives!
I disagree strongly. I don't think with his record he'd veto any un-constitutional weapons bill, and the President has a LOT to do with abortion: 1) Supreme Court Nominations, 2) Vetos, and of course 3) the bully pulpit.
On the gay issue, he'd have a bully pulpit to use for gay marriage.
Rudy has worked to help Republican candidates - and conservative, "un-winnable" Republican candidates at that - so I won't bash him. He's no Arnold, in that regards at least. But it isn't correct to underplay the President's role in supporting critical and cherished planks in our party's platform.
Thanks for a great post, Sparky----nice find on your part----a great contribution for voters looking to 2008.
Voters should ask themselves, do we really need another Democrat Party?
Rudy Giuliani will turn the Republican Party into a clone of the Democrat Party. Over and above Giussolini's baggage of three wives, his Clintonesque adultery, social liberalism, plus his mobbed-up buddy Bernard Kerik, the candidacy of Rudy Giuliani should be rejected to protect the party from advancing liberalism.
Liberals are worming their way into the Republican Party to advance their agenda under the guise of Giuliani's faux Republicanism. Giuliani's presence in the Republican Party fortells the onslaught of Democratic liberalism.
Anyone who thinks the assclown is a conservative ... think Aaaarnold Schwartzenkennedy
Giuliani: Pro-growth tax-cutter
Rudy Giuliani has proven, both during his tenure as mayor of New York and through his subsequent rhetoric, that he is a pro-growth Republican in the mold of Ronald Reagan, Jack Kemp, and Newt Gingrich.? As mayor, Giuliani cut?city taxes by more than eight billion dollars, reducing the tax burden on New Yorkers by 22%.? Giuliani’s low-tax views remain intact.? As Race42008 correspondent Kavon noted?yesterday, Rudy’s recent visit to Minnesota included an emphasis on achieving economic growth via low taxes and less regulation on the economy.? Rockefeller he ain’t; Rudy’s a Reagan Republican.
Rudy: Gingrich-style government reformer
Conservatives who liked Newt’s welfare reform and GWB’s attempt at entitlement reform have an ally in Rudy.? As mayor, Giuliani reformed?welfare in New York with the same tenacity as the class of ‘94 in Congress.? Once again, this ain’t Christie Whitman we’re dealing with; Rudy’s a Newt Republican who also made a serious attempt to take on the teachers’ unions in NYC and fund school choice via charter schools.? A President Giuliani means a conservative reformer who will fight for market-based revisions to our age-old bureaucratic messes in Washington.
Rudy Giuliani: Fiscal conservative
As mayor, Rudy Giuliani cut?the New York City government payroll by 19%, eliminating unnecessary civil servants?from the public dole.? Can anyone remember the last time a Republican president was able to send lazy federal workers packing?? Inheriting a multi-billion dollar deficit, Rudy turned it into a surplus, delivering eight consecutive balanced budgets.? Folks, this ain’t Linc Chafee we’re talking about here.
Giuliani: Tough enough to take on the bad guys
Unlike the Democrats, who are too nuanced to acknowledge that the “bad guys” in life even exist, Rudy Giuliani knows how to identify a threat to safety and security and pound that threat into submission.? Giuliani’s record on crime in NYC is well-documented; if Rudy?is able to do to the terrorists what he did to the crime lords of the Big Apple, Americans will once again be able to feel secure in an uncertain world.? Sure, every Republican will talk tough on terror, but only Rudy’s proven he actually knows how to eliminate a threat terrorizing a population.
Rudy will secure our borders
An essential component of national security includes securing America’s borders.? Unfortunately, President Bush has been unwilling to take the necessary steps to accomplish that task.? While John McCain and Mitt Romney discuss “comprehensive” solutions, Rudy is ready to do what it takes to prevent individuals from illegally entering the United States.? During his recent visit to Minnesota, Rudy laid out?his immigration plan, which begins with sealing the borders and also involves ensuring that immigrants learn English so that they can be better assimilated into American culture.? As such, Rudy is to the right of President Bush on this issue.
Giuliani would appoint strict constructionists to the judiciary
Social conservatives who want to see Roe v. Wade overturned and who fear the imposition of same-sex marriage on unwilling populations by judicial fiat have a friend in Giuliani.? Rudy has now explicitly voiced support?for the appointment of strict constructionists to the federal bench.? His recent trip to Minnesota included an?admission that he would appoint judges like Roberts and Alito.? During this same trip, Rudy also confirmed that he believes legislatures, and not judges, should set policy.? A Giuliani presidency would now almost certainly fail to yield judicial rulings from the federal bench in favor of gay marriage, and would be at least as likely as any other Republican presidency to see abortion returned to the political process, where it belongs.
Rudy believes that marriage is between a man and a woman
Mayor Giuliani has made clear his belief in traditional marriage only; that marriage should be defined as being between a man and a woman, and in no other form.? Says Rudy:
“I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman, that it should remain that way, it should remain that way inviolate, and everything should be done to make sure that that’s the case,…”
Some social conservatives are uncomfortable that Rudy doesn’t support amending the Constitution to make sure this definition of marriage stands.? But Rudy has made clear that he’ll do whatever it takes to maintain the traditional definition of marriage; he just thinks the constitutional amendment is the wrong strategy right now.? I agree.? As long as judges like Roberts and Alito are on the bench — the type that Rudy would appoint as president — a constitutional amendment is unnecessary.
Giuliani understands the party he’s leading
Unlike McCain, who basically told southern, religious conservatives where they could go back in 2000, Rudy understands that he’s campaigning to lead the party of the sunbelt — a party that is more pro-life and pro-gun than his New York constituents.? As such, the mayor has given no indication that he will turn his presidency into some sort of pro-abortion, pro-gun control crusade, and every indication that he will defer to his base on those issues.? We’ve yet to get definitive statements from Rudy regarding abortion or the Second Amendment in the last few years.? While Rudy opponents trot out statements from the 1990s or even the 1980s on those issues, let’s wait and see where Rudy stands in 2006 before passing any judgment.? Mayor Giuliani might just surprise pro-life, pro-Second Amendment conservatives with his interpretation of how the president, and not the mayor of the most liberal city in the country, should handle these hot-button cultural issues.? At the very least, Giuliani appears prepared to do no harm to conservatives on these issues while promising to advance their causes via the appointment of conservative judges.?
Rudy Giuliani is absolutely electable
Despite what John Hawkins says, Rudy is probably the most electable Republican in the country right now.? In fact, it would be very, very difficult for me to imagine a scenario in which Rudy would lose to any Democrat, and the mayor would easily trounce the Gore/Kerry sort of Democrat that the Left insists on nominating time after time.? If Hillary or Gore is the nominee in 2008, Rudy would win the electoral college in a walk.? Here’s why.
First, the impact of an ethnic Catholic leading a presidential ticket must not be understated.? The entire industrial north is a region filled with Catholics of eastern and southern European descent.? This includes states like Pennsylvania and Michigan, which went for John Kerry by only two and three percentage points in 2004, respectively.? Identity politics alone would likely garner Giuliani a couple of extra percentage points across the Rust Belt, just as President Bush likely benefited from his southern evangelical status in states filled with southern evangelicals.
Secondly, Rudy’s fiscally-conservative profile is very similar to the Republican executives elected by the voters of states like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.? By reminding upper-midwestern voters of their favorite governors, like Tommy Thompson, John Engler, and Tom Ridge, Rudy would likely garner another few points out of the Rust Belt.
So let’s say that Rudy’s ethnic Catholic, working class background, combined with his Rust Belt-style positions on the issues,?is able to increase the GOP presidential ticket’s vote share by five percent from 2004 across the Rust Belt, which includes the states bordered by Minnesota and Iowa in the west and New Jersey in the east.? The result of this sort of a swing would send the following states into the “red” column: Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.? That’s another 58 electoral votes for the GOP ticket.
Now, John Hawkins will argue that’s all for naught, as Rudy, who is unable to pound the podium regarding life issues with the same tenacity as President Bush, will likely lose a few points across the South.? Okay, I’ll bite.? Let’s assume that Rudy’s?presidential ticket?loses five points from Bush’s 2004 totals in every single southern state simply because he’s a) not an evangelical, b) he can’t call himself pro-life, and c) he’s not for amending the Constitution to ban gay marriage.? I think assuming a five point loss in every southern state is more than generous to John’s argument in this case, and I suspect Hawkins would agree.? Now, let’s see how many southern states Rudy loses with that five point loss across the South…
Absolutely none.
In fact, the only state that would be teetering on the edge with a five point reduction in the South from Bush’s 2004 numbers would be Florida, a state filled with ex-New-Yorkers who would almost certainly make up for any sort of Bush-Giuliani gap in the region.? The fact of the matter is simply that the GOP has succeeded in Republicanizing the South to the extent that most southern states are simply no longer in danger of turning “blue” during a presidential election.? Mark Warner might be able to win a few of them against Arlen Specter, but as has been demonstrated above, Rudy’s no Arlen Specter.? And Hillary Clinton is no Mark Warner.
Further, Hawkins’ argument that Rudy couldn’t survive without the support of the GOP base is very true.? As such, it’s a good thing that Rudy has been able to attain the support of that very base.? Rudy generally garners between 85% and 90% of Republicans in a hypothetical matchup against a standard blue-state Democrat like Hillary Clinton.? These numbers are just ever-so-slightly shy of Bush’s 90-plus percent GOP support against Kerry in 2004.? And while it’s true that Rudy’s support among independents and Democrats will fluctuate, it’s probably also true that Rudy will at least win independents in the general election, which the president couldn’t do two years ago.? Given those considerations, it’s hard to see how Rudy can be viewed as anything other than supremely electable.
Conclusion
Of the current GOP 2008 field, Rudy Giuliani is the only candidate who brings to the table the charisma and leadership of a Reagan, the transformative conservative policies of a Gingrich, and the seriousness regarding the GWOT of a Bush.? Giuliani is perfectly suited to lead today’s sunbelt center-right GOP due to his belief in low taxes, fiscal responsibility, market-based government reform, traditional marriage, conservative judges, securing the borders, and, last but certainly not least, the destruction of the terrorist threat against America.? Only Rudy can package all of this conservatism in a manner that appeals to large numbers of swing voters while still maintaining solid levels of support among the Republican base.? Rudy Giuliani would almost certainly sweep the electoral college against any Democrat by holding all of the red states, most of which are now so heavily Republican that only a very conservative Democrat has a chance of winning them, while flipping the electoral-rich Rust Belt that has at least as much of a cultural connection with Giuliani as the South did with President Bush.? Tough, conservative, and electable, conservatives could do a lot worse than Rudy Giuliani.
Split between what candidates? We will be fortunate to have A conservative with any $ by the time the primaries roll around since there are virtually none in the running except 3rd tier candidates. It's much more likely that Rudy will split the vote with 2 other lefties (McCain and Romney) if he runs.
- Attended and marched in every gay pride parade in NYC while mayor (even one in 1992 that included a NAMBLA contingent of pedophile activists)
- Attends and supports many functions and fund-raisers held by radical gay organizations (even did a cross dressing act at Pride Agenda fund-raiser)
- Openly opposes Constitutional Amendment to protect tradition marriage which is supported by President Bush and the Republican Party Platform.
- Supported "domestic partner" and "civil union" bills in City Council while mayor of NYC.
- Submitted Gay "Domestic-Partner" Rights Bill to City Council giving gay and lesbian couples the same benefits reserved for married couples.
- Said, "I'm proud of it" when referring to the gay "domestic partner" bill he submitted. Said, "National Republicans can lump it if they don't like this new domestic-partners bill...I think it puts New York City ahead of other places in the country."
- Has received awards from several radical gay agenda organizations who support gay marriage for his support of their cause. Is considered a "champion" of gay "rights."
- Lived with a gay "married" couple in Manhattan when he moved out of Gracie Mansion during his second divorce.
- Said that homosexuality is "good and normal"
Some people want Republicans to ignore his liberalism on almost every issue and, as a distraction, they try to pretend that Rudy is fiscally conservative. Again, his record shows that he isn't fiscally conservative either:
According to an article in The Nation from 2002:
It's now apparent that Giuliani purchased the city's good times partially with borrowed money and left his successor, Mike Bloomberg, holding a bag of debt. New York City went from a $3 billion budget surplus in 1998 to a $4.5 billion deficit after Giuliani left office. This mismanagement of prosperity is a big part of his legacy. Giuliani left the city's finances in a mess...Here are some things Giuliani did as Mayor that were NOT anywhere near being fiscally conservative:
- New York City went from a $3 billion budget surplus in 1998 to a $4.5 billion deficit after Giuliani left office.
- Added 25,000 government employees patronage hires to the city's payroll after promising to cut the work force.
- Giuliani's borrowing practices increased the city's debt burden by 50 percent.
- Partly because of Giuliani, New York City is now the biggest debtor in the nation outside of the federal government with $42 billion in loans outstanding.
According to the article from The Nation:
During the 1960s Giuliani was a self-described "Robert Kennedy Democrat." He identified with RFK as a liberal Catholic prosecutor. He volunteered for RFK's 1968 presidential campaign while he was a student at NYU Law School. Giuliani also voted for George McGovern in 1972. During the liberal 1960s, he was a liberal.So, to sum that up:But in 1975 Giuliani switched his party registration from Democrat to Independent when he got a job in Gerald Ford's Justice Department, according to his mentor Harold "Ace" Tyler.
On December 8, 1980, Giuliani changed his registration from Independent to Republican. This was one month after Ronald Reagan's election, and just as he was applying for a top job in the Justice Department.
"He only became a Republican after he began to get all these jobs from them. He's definitely not a conservative Republican. He thinks he is, but he isn't..."
And as John Hawkins put it in an excellent article in Human Events:
Despite all of his charisma and the wonderful leadership he showed after 9/11, Rudy Giuliani is not a Reagan Republican. To the contrary, Giuliani is another Christie Todd Whitman, another Arlen Specter, another Olympia Snowe. He's a throwback to the "bad old days" before Reagan, when the GOP was run by moderate Country Club Republicans who considered conservatives to be extremists. Trying to revive that failed strategy again is likely to lead to a Democratic President in 2008 and numerous setbacks for the Republican Party.
Well good luck trying to win for your guy without the Moderates and Independents for your guy too. Looks like it's 8 years of Hillary or Edwards (I don't think Obama will win)! Enjoy!
"They'd rather hate and spew than be FOR something or someone."
Because the Tancredo-bashers on FreeRepublic are so much better.....
Most of these "haters" are for something and do have a personal favorite for the republican party in 2008, and it usually isn't leftist republicans like McCain, Giuliani and Hagel.
Tancredo is ten-fold the conservative that Giuliani pretends to be. Same with Hunter, Paul, Gilmore, Gingrich and whoever else I'm forgetting.
Exactly. On the matters that the President can control or influence, Rudy is rock solid.
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I think we're going to be outnumbered here, but if he is the nominee I will vote for him. Is he my ideal candidate? No, neither was Bush and I voted for him.
There is an overriding issue here, Islamic Terrorism, don't tell me he will be weak in the number one issue we face.
He's like us, Arafat is NOT WELCOME and he threw him out of New York on his sorry A$$ when he tried to socialize with actual human beings. At least he has a pair.
If the fetus is female, does she get a choice in the matter?
Any guy who said he'd pay for his daughter's abortion (if this statement is provable) is a) not much of a man, and b) a dead duck in a Republican Presidential Primary. With good reason.
Maybe to the left of Arlen. At least Specter has a little bit of respect for the 2nd Amendment and doesn't always vote on the wrong side with the gun grabbers.
You are beating a dead horse with these guys! Good post though! They are not interested in the WOT - they are single issue voters and only care about social issues. They thought they could run on that in 2006 and look what happened. They got screwed. Most American DO NOT vote on social issues alone! And they will get screwed again in 2008. They will chose a loser and pay for it with Hillary or Edwards.
"...well a news flash for you, other conservatives are looking for a candidate that can actually win with the American electorate."
In that case, let's go with Lincoln Chafee. A liberal republican who can win the election, if that is all we are to care about. Chafee will win over liberals, moderates and hold plenty of conservatives/republicans who will vote for him out of fear of Hillary Clinton. Sounds like a plan. Chafee 2008!
The Conservative Case Against Rudy Giuliani
by John Hawkins
Posted Aug 30, 2006 Rudy Giuliani, a contender for the presidency in 2008, is receiving an inordinate amount of positive attention. That's quite understandable since Rudy is charismatic, did a great job on the campaign trail for President Bush in 2004, and his phenomenal performance after 9/11 was much appreciated. However, likeable or not, having Rudy as the GOP's candidate in 2008 would be a big mistake. Here's a short, but sweet primer on some of Rudy's many flaws.
Rudy's Strong Pro-Abortion Stance
As these comments from a 1989 conversation with Phil Donahue show, Rudy Giuliani is staunchly in favor of abortion:
"I've said that I'll uphold a woman's right of choice, that I will fund abortion so that a poor woman is not deprived of a right that others can exercise, and that I would oppose going back to a day in which abortions were illegal.Worse yet, Giuliani even supports partial birth abortion:
I do that in spite of my own personal reservations. I have a daughter now; if a close relative or a daughter were pregnant, I would give my personal advice, my religious and moral views ...
Donahue: Which would be to continue the pregnancy.
Giuliani: Which would be that I would help her with taking care of the baby. But if the ultimate choice of the woman - my daughter or any other woman - would be that in this particular circumstance [if she had] to have an abortion, I'd support that. I'd give my daughter the money for it."
"I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-gay rights,Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing," he responded." -- CNN.com, "Inside Politics" Dec 2, 1999It's bad enough that Rudy is so adamantly pro-abortion, but consider what that could mean when it comes time to select Supreme Court Justices. Does the description of Giuliani that you've just read make you think he's going to select an originalist like Clarence Thomas, who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade -- or does it make you think he would prefer justices like Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy who'd leave Roe v. Wade in place?
His thoughts on the gay-marriage amendment? "I don't think you should run a campaign on this issue," he told the Daily News earlier this month. "I think it would be a mistake for anybody to run a campaign on it -- the Democrats, the president, or anybody else."Here's more from the New York Daily News:
"Rudy Giuliani came out yesterday against President Bush's call for a ban on gay marriage.Although Rudy may grudgingly say he doesn't support gay marriage (and it would be political suicide for him to do otherwise), where he really stands on the issue is an open question.
The former mayor, who Vice President Cheney joked the other night is after his job, vigorously defended the President on his post-9/11 leadership but made clear he disagrees with Bush's proposal to rewrite the Constitution to outlaw gays and lesbians from tying the knot.
"I don't think it's ripe for decision at this point," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
"I certainly wouldn't support [a ban] at this time," added Giuliani..."
"While McCain has taken heat for his support of comprehensive immigration reform, Rudy is every bit as pro-immigration as McCain - if not more so. On the O'Reilly Factor last week Giuliani argued for a "practical approach" to immigration and cited his efforts as Mayor of New York City to "regularize" illegal immigrants by providing them with access to city services like public education to "make their lives reasonable." Giuliani did say that "a tremendous amount of money should be put into the physical security" needed to stop the flow of illegal immigrants coming across the border, but his overall position on immigration is essentially indistinguishable from McCain's."That's bad enough. But, as Michelle Malkin has revealed, under Giuliani, New York was an illegal alien sanctuary and "America's Mayor" actually sued the federal government in an effort to keep New York City employees from having to cooperate with the INS:
"When Congress enacted immigration reform laws that forbade local governments from barring employees from cooperating with the INS, Mayor Rudy Giuliani filed suit against the feds in 1997. He was rebuffed by two lower courts, which ruled that the sanctuary order amounted to special treatment for illegal aliens and were nothing more than an unlawful effort to flaunt federal enforcement efforts against illegal aliens. In January 2000, the Supreme Court rejected his appeal, but Giuliani vowed to ignore the law."If you agree with the way that Nancy Pelosi and Company deal with illegal immigration, then you'll find the way that Rudy Giuliani tackles the issue to be right down your alley.
I do not recall mentioning Lincoln Chaffee you brought him up, he isn't electable or likely to run, Rudy is likely to run and is most certainly electable.
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