Plan for superhighway ripped as 'urban legend'

Worldnetdaily.com ^ | January 26, 2007 | Jerome Corsi

[Toddsterpatriot]

They can get good manufacturing jobs as soon as we revoke NAFTA.

I think 50% of the population once worked on farms. You think 50% can get manufacturing jobs now?

You know that manufacturing jobs increased after NAFTA? Or didn't you see that while you were surfing the Public Citizen site? LOL!

[logician2u]

I think it's a question of if the helicopters belong to a top secret, UN or NAU type organization. As I recall (and the black helicopter thing has been around for at least 12 years, starting about the time of Waco), the only person ever to imply that black helicopters belonged to a secret UN conspiracy trying to take over the world was a radio talk show personality who generally dismisses the idea of conspiracies. Those who mistakenly -- in his half-brained opinion -- believe the Randy Weaver incident, the Branch Davidian massacre, the downing of TWA Flt 800, or the strange deaths surrounding Bill Clinton were more than just ordinary happenings are labeled "Keepers Of Odd Knowledge" by this self-professed revealer of all truth with his mind "on loan from G-O-D."

Besides which, everyone should know that UN helicopters, like their APCs and tanks, are uniformly painted white with bold black lettering.

[Toddsterpatriot]

I said good paying manufacturing jobs.

You've said lots of things with nothing to back you up.

You going to show that manufacturing wages dropped since NAFTA? Now that you've admitted that the number of jobs didn't shrink.

[mysterio]

You still don't know what happened in Mexico at that time, do you? Poor ignorant little man.

Yes, I know about the economic crisis that happened. But now it's fixed, thanks to NAFTA, right? Well, not really. It took a big bailout loan to stop it.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, I know about the economic crisis that happened.

What caused the crisis? Could that be why their wages fell? LOL!

But now it's fixed, thanks to NAFTA, right?

Reducing their trade with the US will help Mexico's economy, right?

[mysterio]

The area where I live has been a casualty. We've lost several factories to Mexico or to globalization. Not everyone lost money, though. The group of consultants that organized the restructuring gave themselves millions as a reward.

In your defense, wages in manufacturing have kept up with wages in general. However, productivity has skyrocketed, and the increase in wages does not reflect that increase in productivity.



The ability of any manufacturing facility to threaten to pick up and outsource has removed a lot of the bargaining power workers used to have. But I'll admit, that's the new global economy, and until workers in the cheap labor countries demand better compensation, we're going to see more of the same.

After a couple of hours of perusing charts, I have to concede that if we protected worker's wages in America, we would be able to export even less since the rest of the world isn't following suit. Cheap labor is a reality.

It's just that not everyone is college material, and the new economy is making a college degree as essential as the high school degree was 20 years ago. Therefore, a college degree is now worth less, and those who would have gone into good paying manufacturing jobs are now going to demand that someone pay for them to go to college. Taxpayers will pick up that tab.

It's unavoidable, though. At least my job isn't wading through economic data. My eyes are about ready to pop out of my head from all the charts. If that's what you do for a living, you have my respect for it, lol.

[mysterio]

Reducing their trade with the US will help Mexico's economy, right?

Probably not, but increasing workers' salaries might. A population of broke people don't contribute much to a healthy economy.



And also in your defense, foreign investment probably helped reverse the crash.

[Toddsterpatriot]

So much for NAFTA killing all our high paying jobs. (That's 1982 dollars)

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Data extracted on: January 26, 2007 (11:49:56 PM)

Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)

Series Id:     CES3000000001 Seasonally Adjusted Super Sector:  Manufacturing Industry:      Manufacturing NAICS Code:    N/A Data Type:     ALL EMPLOYEES, THOUSANDS
Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Annual
1994	16853	16862	16896	16932	16962	17011	17027	17082	17114	17144	17187	17218
1995	17259	17264	17263	17278	17260	17250	17218	17241	17246	17215	17207	17230
1996	17206	17229	17192	17204	17221	17226	17222	17255	17253	17268	17276	17285
1997	17298	17316	17339	17351	17362	17387	17387	17451	17466	17513	17555	17587
1998	17621	17627	17637	17636	17624	17607	17421	17564	17558	17512	17466	17449
1999	17426	17394	17368	17342	17333	17294	17319	17288	17281	17275	17283	17277
2000	17285	17285	17302	17299	17276	17297	17325	17287	17232	17215	17204	17181

 

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After 7 full years of NAFTA, manufacturing jobs were higher. So much for NAFTA killing all our manufacturing jobs.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Probably not, but increasing workers' salaries might. A population of broke people don't contribute much to a healthy economy.

Maybe if they bought more expensive stuff their salaries would miraculously increase? LOL!

And also in your defense, foreign investment probably helped reverse the crash.

Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? You think just maybe foreign investment helps our economy grow?

[papasmurf]

" One would think that you'd have learned that from your protectionist colleagues by now."

Is it protectionist to want what you, and your forefathers, have worked for? What you, and your forefathers, have fought in wars for?

I'm all for free trade. But I'm NOT for giving it all away. It should be a level playing field, or none at all.


:O)

P

[papasmurf]

NAFTA sucks.

I'm sorry, I have no links with which to bolster my claim.

The only document I have, that might help, is my micro retirement account. Oh, and the ever increasing number of illegal miscreants crossing our borders each year.

I hope you understand.


:O)

P

[papasmurf]

Does that take into account the legal and illegal increase in population?


I thought not.

:O)

P

[Sprite518]

How about this. No one is talking about it. Its on a government web site

http://www.spp.gov/

To sum it up. No boarders between US, Mexico and Canada. Now we know why the politicians do not care.

[Smokin' Joe]

All so we can save 50 cents on veggies and get the hammer for $7 instead of $10.

Yeah, but they will throw in the sickle for free...

[EternalVigilance]

There is no SPP...move along now...nothing to see...


/jedi mindtricks

[timer]

The general subject is transportation, yes? How many millions of people fly in commercial jets per year? How much traffic moves every day? How much marine traffic every month? It's a BUSY world.

Instead of arguing over a relatively small transport corridor, why not think BIG, like a world wide mag-lev train network? Big jets can carry only limited payloads and the energy cost per mile per pound is HIGH. Steel wheels on rails are much cheaper than rubber tires on pavement, and ships are cheaper still.

A mag-lev train has virtually no loss in lift and EM drag REDUCES with increasing velocity(the sheath effect). A mag-lev train can be MILES long vs the short jumbo jet. As they can travel at up to 300+mph they HAVE to be on raised pylons, like monorails.

Bullet trains have long been in operation in france and japan, and the europeans have an extensive railroad network that runs like clockwork. And yet out own amtrak is slowly going out of business. If there ever was a time to consider mag-lev trains as the future of ground transportation, now is the moment. Why not a mag-lev RR line from tierra del fuego to point barrow, to the chunnel? THINK BIG!

[SShultz460]

Alot of that output has come through modernization and robotics. The same thing would happen right now in the US if Nafta went away. Your high barriers to entry into manufacturing are either Labor, or technological. Techno and Robotics is getting cheaper because of benefits. Plus you don't have workers screwing up production lines.

[1rudeboy]

It should be a level playing field, or none at all.

I completely agree. The problem is, when you enter into an agreement that essentially says, "I won't tax you if you won't tax me," it doesn't matter. You'll always have some populist demagogue (on the Left or Right, it doesn't matter--in this regard they are nearly identical) standing in front of a shuttered factory and crying, "waah, it's not fair!" And then you have otherwise reasonable people chiming in, "well, I'm in favor of fairness." The process will never stop, even if we move to either a 100% libertarian free-market model, or a 100% statist protectionist model.

[1rudeboy]

"No one is talking about it [the SPP]."

Get real. Rarely a day passes when we don't talk about it. Maybe you meant to say, "no one is saying what I want to hear about it?"

[1rudeboy]

There is no SPP...move along now...nothing to see....

Do you realize that your response was directed to someone who posted a link to the SPP website? ROTFLMAO