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To: cajungirl
And your reference to the "holocaust drum" is so repellent that it makes me wonder what you are

Do you stand up and scream hunt down the Turks who murdered Armenians?

Do you stand up and scream hunt down the Indonesians who murdered East Timoreans?

Do you stand up and scream hunt down the Russians who murdered Georgians?

Do you stand up and scream hunt down the Japanese who murdered Chinese?

Do you stand up and scream hunt down the NAZI's who murdered Christians?

Do you stand up and scream hunt down the NAZI's who murdered homosexuals?

Do you stand up and scream hunt down the NAZI's who murdered Gypsies?

If you search the Internet querying for Nazi extermination statistics, you read overwhelmingly about the debate on Nazi'z killing Jews. In fact, the Jews killed, 5,754,000, represent about 15 percent of the total civilians murdered in WWII. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
for an interesting collection of statistics.

The danger for the Jews by singling themselves out for persecution in continuous Holocaust memorials is to further alienate themselves from others. Look at black activists who label New York City as "Hymie Town." Black activists point to the settlements given "Holocaust" family survivors as a just reason for whites to compensate blacks. This will not endear other Americans toward the Jews. The world already despises the Jews. They don't need to alienate themselves from the friends they still have in America.

67 posted on 01/26/2007 6:13:29 AM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The only good Mullah is a dead Mullah. The only good Mosque is the one that used to be there.)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
Do you stand up and scream hunt down the ...

In many cases, yes. People do.

69 posted on 01/26/2007 6:41:53 AM PST by Ramius ([sip])
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

I would have no problem with other genocide victims finding the murderers of their friends, family and neighbors if those men are still alive, and bringing them to justice. I am curious why this would bother you. You sound rather like the jew-baiters that I fled the left to get away from. Tell you what, we conservative Jews don't need "friends" with your mindset. No offense.


76 posted on 01/26/2007 7:46:23 AM PST by ariamne (Proud shieldmaiden of the infidel--never forget, never forgive 9/11)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
The danger for the Jews by singling themselves out for persecution in continuous Holocaust memorials is to further alienate themselves from others. Look at black activists who label New York City as "Hymie Town." Black activists point to the settlements given "Holocaust" family survivors as a just reason for whites to compensate blacks. This will not endear other Americans toward the Jews. The world already despises the Jews. They don't need to alienate themselves from the friends they still have in America.

For Jewish liberals the "uniqueness of the Holocaust" has replaced the Divine Election of Israel (Bechirat Yisra'el). It is also an oxymoron: the absolutely unique, one-of-a-kind, never-to-be-repeated example of what could theoretically happen to anyone else at any time.

But deep behind all this is the inescapable fact that the Jewish People are indeed the Chosen People of G-d. They can't get away from it. The more the liberals among them try to become merely one more minority among many others the Jewish Soul reasserts itself and the "uniqueness of the Holocaust" is the result. Yes, it is, as some critics contend, a secularized Judaism, but it merely serves witness that Judaism--real Judaism--is indeed from the Creator of the Universe. Yes, it can be interpreted as a way to keep the Jewish People at the center of history even once belief in the G-d of Israel has been abandoned, but the Jewish People are at the center of history. Everyone knows it. It is as objective an historical fact as there is. The Jews have always and at all times been recognized by all peoples as different because it is TRUE.

There is a reason for the disproportionate influence of Jews on the world: G-d meant it to be that way! The very nature of the Jewish soul is different from the non-Jewish soul. It comes arises from a separate area of the G-dhead. It enters the Jewish body later than the non-Jewish soul enters the non-Jewish body. The Jewish soul channels G-dliness into the world so that non-Jewish souls can then spread the G-dliness throughout the world (these things, which I state very crudely, are elaborated upon in Jewish mystical teachings). When large numbers of Jews rebel against G-d the consequences are much more disastrous than were it any other people. But at the same time, should Israel ever return whole-heartedly to the Holy Torah, it would bless the world in ways unimagined.

Liberal Jews cannot but be a parody of Torah Jews because that is the nature of the holy Jewish Soul. Instead of being the people who convey the Creator's teachings to the world we have the spectacle of a people whose sufferings at the hands of religious people is supposed to teach the world to abandon G-d and turn to secular humanism. Laws against denial of Biblical events are decried as unthinkable but denial of the Holocaust is criminalized. Creches are banned not because they are idolatrous but because they are "offensive" and chanukkiyyot are erected in their place not to proclaim the triumph of the One G-d but to celebrate "tolerance and diversity." Yes, liberal Jews are a perfect parody of Torah-true Jews and under their influence the United States is becoming a parody of a theocracy, but this is not due to nefariousness or conspiracy. And least of it all does it disprove the claims of Judaism--instead it confirms them!

I am a non-Jew. I get as upset as anyone over loud liberal Jewish demands to acknowledge Jewish suffering without acknowledging the Jewish G-d. But think for a moment. Why don't non-observant Jews simply live lives of meaningless ease as do so many other people? Because they can't!!! Their Jewish souls won't let them! How miserable they must be, starving for something they cannot identify, which compels them, drives them, to search for "meaning," "justice," or what-have-you! What torment they must endure, never to have any rest! And it's not just among liberals that one finds such starved Jewish crusaders; think for a moment of self-described agnostic and former radical David Horowitz, who does so much for conservatism. His soul is as starved for Torah as that of any destructive Jewish liberal.

The thing to remember is that, as hard as it is to believe, secular Jews (at least on an intellectual level) reject Jewish uniqueness. But the more they fight against it, the more visible and unique they appear (though not in a good way). Even all the Holocaust museums and commemorations are for Jewish liberals (at one level or another) an attempt to be "just like everyone else," as incredible as that may seem. But because of the nature of the Jewish soul and the way G-d created the world even this "non-uniqueness" comes across as chronically unique.

There is enormous destructive power in the Jewish soul if it is not in submission to the Yoke of Heaven (much more than in a non-Jewish soul). But the beneficial power of a pious Jewish soul is just as powerful. One day the world will see this.

Despite all the frustrations one may feel, the fact remains that Jewishness uniqueness and centrality to history is an objective fact acknowleged by all, both friend and foe. Chr*stianity is splintered into numerous theological and ethnic groups, both ancient and modern, but Judaism (apart from liberal heretics and a few Qara'ites) remains united and its identity undisputed. Only Judaism's Scripture begins with the Creation of the World. Only Jewish history is identical to world history. Only to the Jews did the invisible, unincarnated, unmediated G-d reveal Himself at Sinai. Only the Torah, of all the ancient scriptures of the world, has existed among all Jews in all times for the past 3300+ years exactly as it exists and is written now (the only variations are among the Yemenites and consist of a few vowel letters that change none of the meanings). Only the Jewish Scriptural tradition contains the rules and regulations that assure that the Torah will always be written and preserved exactly as Moses first wrote it down at HaShem's dictation.

And most importantly, only Israel's G-d is absolutely, assuredly, undeniably G-d. All chr*stian denominations admit that Judaism was the true religion at one time in the past, but they can't agree on what took its place. No amount of Jewish liberalism can change any of these simple facts. One either sits at the feet of Gedolei-Yisr'ael or gives up and goes home. There is nowhere else to go.

I hope these thoughts are of some help to you. For your further perusal, here is an essay containing more of my thoughts on the centrality of the Holocaust in the liberal (and to a certain degree general secularist) worldview.

79 posted on 01/26/2007 9:20:53 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator ("Shallach 'et-`ammi, veya`avduni!!!")
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
In fact, the Jews killed, 5,754,000, represent about 15 percent of the total civilians murdered in WWII.

You like statistics? Try this one:

The Jews killed, 6 million, represent about 38% of all the Jews alive in 1939. Genocide is more than just mass murder. It is an attempt to obliterate an entire people, simply because of who they are.

81 posted on 01/26/2007 10:02:14 AM PST by Petronski (Who am I and why am I here?)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
The danger for the Jews by singling themselves out for persecution in continuous Holocaust memorials is to further alienate themselves from others.

Do you consider Holocaust memorials some kind of invitation to further persecution? I think that's a sick attitude.

Look at black activists who label New York City as "Hymie Town."

And that's the fault of Jews?

I think you have some Joooooooooo issues. Do you have IHR bookmarked on your web browser?

100 posted on 01/26/2007 12:51:40 PM PST by Petronski (Who am I and why am I here?)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

In my last post to you, I said I wondered what you were.

Now I know.

You with your ridiculous post, just suggested Jews shut up so people won't hate them and that the world already hates jews.

You are so full of it.


107 posted on 01/26/2007 2:20:51 PM PST by cajungirl (no)
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