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I'll ask a second time. If "people/persons" only refers to citizens of the United States "collectively" (your term), then why did the Founders distinguish between the two elsewhere in the text?

As far as the Constitution, as Supreme Law of the Land, applying to every person withing its jurisdiction, that's not penumbra-speak.

"If "people/persons" only refers to citizens of the United States "collectively" (your term), then why did the Founders distinguish between the two elsewhere in the text?"

A Person is an individual regardless of citizenship. "The people" refers to the citizens as individuals. Simple, no?

"As far as the Constitution, as Supreme Law of the Land, applying to every person withing its jurisdiction, that's not penumbra-speak."

So, it DOES protect an invading army in your world....

The constitution makes it plain that every " person within it's jurisdiction" means legal residents and citizens. It does NOT include people here illegally. Anyone who thinks otherwise had better read it over again very carefully. Taking a single sentance out of context is an old liberal trick.

According to your thinking, and others like you, the constitution would cover anyone in the world, or at least anyone who was within sight of our troops, because they would then be within it's jurisdiction!

This criminal had no consitutional rights, even if he had been here legally he gave up the right NOT to be shot at when he tried to smuggle illegal drugs into the country. The whole point you open border people try to gloss over is this guy was committing a major crime, several major crimes actually, and he should have been the one convicted, NOT the law officers who were trying to apprehend him.

Taking the word of a law breaking, smuggling, illegal, felon committing scum bag over two officers of the law is extremely telling on the people who have done so.

You and Enoch are going to love this...Y'alls perspectives are very intriging to say the least...

Mirriam Webster (sp?) dictionary defines "citizen" as a "person"who owes loyalty to and is "entitled" to the protection of a government.

Section(s) of the definition of the people follow:

"people"

(a) The body of "persons" living under one governmentin the same country: nationality (the French people)

(b) Enfranchised citizens: electorate.

subscript:

"peoples" A group of persons who share a common culture, language or inherited condition of life.

The definition of "people" goes on with some similar explanations and examples...But I thought it best to get this out quickly enough so you two can see this...

What is funny is I bet when they were drafting this document up they yelled over to Mr. Webster and asked him if he had this written down in that little book of his...