It seems to peak around 15 KWhs in the afternoon.
As always, YMMV. I don't know how well Seattle would do with solar, but in Texas it is no problem.
Posted on 01/21/2007 6:41:36 AM PST by Uncledave
January 20, 2007 Is the Sun finally rising on Solar Power? An Interview with Rob Styler of Citizenre (Press Release from Affordable Photovoltaics LLC)
In the past, "going green" usually implied sacrifice. You get to feel good about saving the planet but most "green" products are more expensive than their "dirty" counterparts. With Citizenre, going green can actually save you money. In 1931, Thomas Edison had a conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone. He said, "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." We have waited 76 years, but an innovative company may have finally found a solution.
The sun supplies enough energy to earth in one hour to supply all of our energy needs for an entire year. But currently solar power produces less than 1/2 of 1% of our residential energy needs. Why?
In the past, solar power has been too expensive and too complicated. To switch to solar, people had to invest their children's college fund or sell their second car. The average consumer pays $40,000 to convert their home to solar-plus you are responsible for the installation, maintaining the equipment, getting permits-who has the time (or the money)?
A company called Citizenre has a bold plan to remove all of the traditional barriers to solar power. They offer: No system purchase. No installation cost. No maintenance. No permit hassles. No performance worries. No rate increases. No way!?
When we first heard about this, we were so intrigued that we contacted the company. It seemed almost too good to be true. Like most innovations, their model is so simple it makes you wonder why no one thought of it before.
You simply pay Citizenre the same rate per kilowatt for power that you used to pay your utility company-but it gets even better. Citizenre will guarantee that your rate per kilowatt will not go up for 25 years. With ever increasing electricity rates, this gives consumers peace of mind and can add up to significant savings. They even have a solar calculator on their website that shows exactly how much you will save over 1, 5, and 25 years. I saved over $13,000 and by using clean energy, it was the equivalent of taking 24 cars off the road or planting 400 trees. Nice.
In the past, "going green" usually implied sacrifice. You get to feel good about saving the planet but most "green" products are more expensive than their "dirty" counterparts. With Citizenre, going green can actually save you money.
This is all made possible by net metering laws that require the utility companies to allow renewable energy to flow into the grid and then allow the consumer to pull that same amount of energy off of the grid at no cost to the consumer. Basically the grid becomes a huge battery. The meter spins backwards during the day when the sun is shining and forwards at night when the consumer pulls that power back off the grid.
These laws were passed because residential energy production was the number one cause of pollution in the US last year, but there are still 9 states that have not joined the party. If you live in Alaska, Tennessee, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, or South Dakota, the Citizenre Solution is not an option for you yet.
We were still a little skeptical, so we asked Rob Styler, the president of their marketing division, some hard questions.
Q. How can Citizenre afford to install this complete solar system with no upfront cost to the consumer?
A. Because we handle everything ourselves from the solar grade silicon to the final installation, we create savings at each stage of the production. Plus we are building the largest plant for solar power in the world. When you combine our vertical integration with our economies of scale, we are able to produce the final product at half the cost of our competitors.
Q. This sounds like Citizenre required a large amount of money to make all this happen?
A. $650 million.
Q. Now I know why no one did this before you guys. So the customer does not have to give any money to have this complete solar system installed on their house?
A. We require a security deposit, typically only $500, at the time of installation. They get this deposit back, with interest, at the end of the contract. If they don't pay their bill and walk away from the contract, they lose their deposit and we come take the system off their roof. They are also required to pay a monthly rental for the solar energy system.
Q. And how is that rent calculated?
A. By the amount of energy that the system produces.
Q. But they are paying the same rate they were paying before, right?
A. Often it is actually less. We base our rates on the yearly average for their utility. So we have to base our rates on the prior year. Since rates tend to go up each year, many customers will save money on their first bill, and this will only increase as the years pass. We provide a calculator on our website that will tell specifically what they will save with their particular utility and their monthly usage. Many customers save over $10,000 just by switching to the sun. Our whole mission is to help people join the solution and stop being part of the problem.
Q. I like that. How long of a contract do they have to sign?
A. One year, five years, or 25 years. Over 70% of our customers sign the 25-year contract because that locks in their rate for the entire term of the contract. If they sign a shorter contract, their rate is recalculated according to current energy rates at the end of their term.
Q. What happens if I sign a 25-year contract and I want to sell my house in 10 years?
A. You have three options. First, you can ask us to move the system to your new house. We do that one time for free. Second, you can transfer the contract to the new owner. This can potentially add value to your house because if energy rates keep going up like they are and they are 60% higher in 10 years, then your buyer would get a 60% decrease on their energy bill because of your foresight. The final option is that you can contact us, tell us that you just want to end the contract and we will remove the unit. With this third option you do lose your security deposit.
Q. So is my security deposit the most I can lose?
A. Obviously if you don't pay your bill there will be late fees or if one of our franchisees comes out to your house to remove the unit and you greet him with a shot gun and pit bull, we will have to take legal steps to recover our property. But if the customer is cooperative they should have no worries.
Q. Say I want a system on my house. How does it work? What is the process?
A. One of our Independent Ecopreneurs will help you each step of the way. There are some simple questions to answer about your amount of shade, the direction of your roofline, etc. After you sign the contract, a solar engineer will come to the house to design your system.
Q. What if I don't like the design? Am I still obligated to the contract?
A. No. You can back out of the contract with no penalty. You don't even pay the deposit until after you approve the design.
Q. Okay. I like the design. I want the system. What's next?
A. The installation usually takes about half a day. The permit process can take as much as 90 days depending on how cooperative the local utility is, but we handle everything. All you do is sit back and feel good knowing you are using clean energy to power your home.
Q. What happens if something breaks or goes wrong?
A. We have a complete worry free performance guarantee. If the unit ever stops working, one of our franchisees will rush out to fix it for free. The customer has no rental charges until the system is working again so we are motivated to get it fixed fast.
Q. What if my kid hits a baseball through one of the panels?
A. It is just like renting a car or a TV. You are responsible for returning it in good condition. We recommend that customers contact their homeowners insurance to double check that the unit will be covered under their policy. Usually there is not a problem.
Q. Wouldn't I save money in the long run if I just bought the system?
A. Actually, no. Renting can save you a significant amount of money, and it protects you from a large investment risk. We can help the consumer evaluate their options so they can make a solid decision. Our goal is to have solar power producing 25% of our residential energy supply in the year 2025. To make that happen, we removed every barrier we could find to solar entry. We make solar simple.
Q. I understand that your manufacturing plant is not completed yet, is that right?
A. Correct. The first systems will be ready to install in September of 2007.
Q. So why would someone sign up now?
A. First because they lock in their rate as soon as they sign up. Second, they get in line so they can get their system sooner once the plant is producing. Third, it also helps us show the market how many people will go green if we provide an offer that makes sense on every level, including economically. To quote Ghandi, "Be the change that you want to see in the world."
Q. So how does someone sign up?
A. They just go to http://www.affordablephotovoltaics.com and they can sign up for free right now.
Bush came out in favor of the technology and that was the last we ever heard about it. Typical GOP follow-through.
"I hope their supposed economies of scale make this feasible -- they're selling directly against utility retail rates, perhaps there's some margin there for them -- and I also assume since they own the equipment they would pocket some tax credits. It would also create downward pressure on utilities' rates if it gained any traction."
The (traditional) electric companies are pricing themselves right out of business. Here in CT we are staring at an 80% increase in our commercial electric bills in the next 9 months.
I am thinking about writing a letter to this company and seeing what they could do on a commercial level. Obviously they probably do not have the efficiency needed to run a "factory"... but for many small "shops" and offices here in CT this would be a VERY worthwhile thing to look into and an east sell.
A customer of mine just figured out that he'll save money powering his business (30 employees) off of a diesel generator....he'll get ROI in anywhere from 18 to 20 months down the road. The generator cost him $12,000.00
What state/area are you in? Is this available everywhere?
Foldin' is fun!
Lucky you - I'm in NY, and it's 9F here
I'm here in CT, too. Sickening, eh?
It seems to peak around 15 KWhs in the afternoon.
As always, YMMV. I don't know how well Seattle would do with solar, but in Texas it is no problem.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/concentrator_systems.html
Fuel cells are not a source of power. The fuel a fuel cell uses is the source of power. The fuel cell is an alternative to an engine combined with a generator.
If using hydrogen as the fuel, fuel cells can be considered a method of storing power, an alternative to batteries. In this case, using electricity to convert water to hydrogen is analogous to using electricity to charge the battery.
Of course, an internal combustion engine burning hydrogen connected to a generator (Ford has one available today), would be the exact same model.
How about superceeding laws by the feds stating that solar pannels can not be prohibited by any HOA or local codes.
The way I understand it. As long as there is sun shine the panels provide electricity to the home. You remain connected to your current provider for night time use.
There is a switching mechanism I have seen in homes which have generator back up systems. All the switching is done automatically.
If the panels provide more electricity than the home is demanding, the power co. must purchase the excess.
Feel free to correct me.
Cogeneration works because he gets the waste heat from the generator. A local "Y" has a cogeneration system. They heat the swimming pool water from waste heat from the Natural Gas generator set.
A welding company uses diesel powered welder/generators and runs the coolant through fancoils to heat their shops.
http://www.aegisenergyservices.com/
http://www.tecogen.com/cogen.htm
http://www.cogeneration.net/Cogeneration.htm
Yes, but fuel cells can work with a hydrocarbon fuel such as natural gas or gasoline, and various alcohols, as well as hydrogen.
Too many assume "fuel cells"="zero emissions", when in reality "hydrogen fuel"="zero emissions", that is an ordinary automobile internal combustion engine, converted to burn hydrogen, will produce zero emissions.
Likewise, a fuel cell using methane will produce an exaust of carbon dioxide along with water vapor. The exact same byproducts an CNG converted bus or taxi emits.
Certainly, the chemical byproducts produced by the high temperatures of an internal combustion engine do not occur in a fuel cell.
Interesting if they could get enough of the surface areas of roofs, they could in THEORY make a profit selling power back to the grid.
Now here is the question, will the local governments demand to own the solar power potential?
What about coastal areas? What happens when the county or city commisioner can't sell a vote to a condo tower developer because the 80 story condo building will block out the solar generating ability?
There is case law (OLD case law) about solar easements. This means you can't block your neighbor's sunlight.
Up here in the mountains looks isn't a problem and our house is already passive-solar with the entire south-facing side of the house nothing but windows...and we already have a solar hotwater heater installed by the previous owner.
This plan almost sounds too good to be true.
I understood baynative said he/she was already off grid.
Personally, I would prefer to own my own equipment, stayed tied into the grid and not worry about some third asshat party trying to take my money. The future is in Nukes, not solar power. Nuclear energy is the cheapest and cleanest available. We just have to finally get enough of the marxist, communist, green BS and force the government to relax the regulations on building nukes. It is ridiculous that we sit around and take the crap dished out by liberals. When are we going to grow a set and fight back.
The only downside I see is that you are locked into rates for 25 years. Then if there were a significant breakthrough in energy development and electrical costs actually dropped significantly. Big deal - you're out $500 bucks after saving money on your bill for a number of years.
The other downfall is if the rates went so high that the company was losing money buying off grid power for your back up that they went out of business.
Both scenarios seem unlikely.
Another thing this company is counting on are much more efficient appliances and lighting in the future. If a customer is locked in at a fixed $$ per month, there isn't much incentive to upgrade to the higher efficiency appliances.
Your house sounds like it is very cool!
BTTT
The monthly rate is the amount of energy provided by the system, based on your local providers rates.
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