Russia issues official warning to Estonia in Soviet monument row

RIA Novosti ^ | 18/ 01/ 2007

[Grzegorz 246]

"So, the question is, will Putin send in troops?"

Now It's just Reichstag still burning but that's not impossible in the future.

"Will NATO respond?"

Probably like French and British in 39.

[lizol]

This is an aerial picture of the main square of my hometown Lowicz (Poland)


The brown square in the middle of it marks place, where a large "Gratitude memorial" to the Red Army used to be located (among historical buildings, fitting like a flower to a fur).

It looked like this


What's most barbaric - the communists used gravestones from the Jewish cemetery to build it (so called maztevah).

Fortunately we don't have that thing anymore since 1991, and the gravestones went back, to their proper place (Jewish cemetery)

And here you have a picture taken in 1916.


It shows more or less the same spot.
The difference is, that you can see another memorial there built by the Germans, dedicated to German soldiers who got poisoned in gas attack near Lowicz.

And it was also demolished, after Poland regained independence in 1918.

This is simply what happens to memorials built by occupants, probably everywhere.

[lizol]

If you ask average Russian to name the worst enemy of Russia, they will say Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania in this order.==

Simply Russians has looong memory:).

And mighty enemies. A real superpower, indeed (LOL!)

[1rudeboy]

There's a Soviet military monument/cemetary right next to the Polish military cemetary right next to the Lithuanian monument/gravesite of the civilians killed by the Soviets in the Jan 13th Massacre in Vilnius. The Lithuanians extinguished the Soviet's eternal flame, but that's about it . . . the rest of the cemetary is well-kept.

[1rudeboy]

Hey, those Baltic nations might be small, but they are fierce. LOL

[1rudeboy]

4. The Russians had monuments built (which are the purpose of this thread), force fed a language, and pushed a deliberate and planned program intended to strip a people of their national identity and culture.==

Absolutely stupid.

Your response here is hilarious. Are you suggesting that the Soviets (note my use of the term) didn't outlaw the Lithuanian language in favor of RUSSIAN, the printing of books in Lithuanian in favor of RUSSIAN, and the Catholic Church in favor of atheism? The last one really ticked 'em off, if you want my humble opinion.

[lizol]

I'm not saying they are not.

It's just about keeping the proportion.


"Powerful" Russia, with ambitions to be a world superpower considers Estonia (probably half the population of Moscow) the worst enemy.

And what real damage can Estonians do to Russia (except hurting her sick imperialist pride)?

Sigh!

Show me your enemies, and I'll tell you who you are.

[1rudeboy]

I've never understood why the Russians feel the way they do about the Balts. It's like the worst case of geopolitical penis-envy.

[lizol]

LOL!

A good analogy.

[eesti]

So now you are denying the fact that Estonians won the Estonian War of Independence? My god, how Red can anyone be?
I think I know my country's history better than you do. Nikolai Yudenich was not interested in Estonia's independence because he was fighting for the Russian Empire. With help from the British Royal Navy Estonians kicked the Bolsheviks out. And that, my friend, is a fact.

If anyone, it's the British seamen who deserve a memorial in the center of Tallinn. Those men gave their lives fighting for Estonia's freedom. And we have always honored their memory and their sacrifice. The "Unknown Rapist" in Tallinn is a disgrace to their memory and it will be removed, whether you like it or not.

You know, to some extent I can even sympathize with Russians. After the collapse of the USSR you were faced with a harsh reality that everything you believed in, everything you fought for, turned out to be a vicious lie. It was different for us, the captive nations. But don't you think it's about time for Russia to give up that Soviet crap? Enough is enough!

I'm done here.

[Cicero]

Yes, to be realistic, if Putin decides to invade the Baltic nations, he will do so in his own good time.

He's saber rattling in so many directions, it's hard to say where he might head first. I'd say he has some serious thoughts about parts of Georgia.

[Freelance Warrior]

Good grass. Easy with this!

[lizol]

LOL!

RusIvan calls it a "country buster" ;-)))

[Freelance Warrior]

Your response here is hilarious. Are you suggesting that the Soviets (note my use of the term) didn't outlaw the Lithuanian language in favor of RUSSIAN, the printing of books in Lithuanian in favor of RUSSIAN,>

No. Lithuanians did speak Lithuanian and printed their books, They had newspapers and such. Though learning Russian was mandatory. I know this because I visited Lithuania at Soviet times.

and the Catholic Church in favor of atheism? The last one really ticked 'em off, if you want my humble opinion.

That was reduced much but not outlawed.

[Freelance Warrior]

It's not uncommon. If the Russians want to leave this dead soldier lying under a traffic circle or whatever goes up instead, fine. But it's not unusual to disinter the dead in order to rebury them in properly consecrated ground. Or, given that this guy was a Communist, maybe a Russian cemetery of his choice.

I think that the remains of the soldiers as well as the monuments should be transfered to Russia. We must take care of the ashes of the heroes who were slain in the fight against Nazism. The Estonian soil isn't appropriate for them anymore.

After that the Russian authorities should cancel any relations with Estonia immediately after our current contracts are fulfilled. The borders should be closed, and envoys revoked home.

[1rudeboy]

I suppose you could call it "reduced," if you include closing churches and seminaries, infiltrating the rest with spies, and sending anyone of influence to the Gulag.

[Freelance Warrior]

Destroying monuments and graves is the best you can do. But that's not much.

[Freelance Warrior]

You said "outlawed". That's not true.

closing churches and seminaries, infiltrating the rest with spies, and sending anyone of influence to the Gulag.

I agree that happened as to any other denomination of Christianity and other religions.

Because Communists thought their "religion" was right. They did basically the same that Teutonic knights did to local pagan worshipping there centuries ago.

[1rudeboy]

When you close seminaries and churches, and send priests and nuns to prison, that is de facto "outlawing." Don't give me this, "we kept one seminary and a few churches open with priests and nuns who agreed to spy for the KGB" de jure crap.