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To: jveritas
"I know exactly what is the goal of islamic jihadists and their dream to establish an islamic empire that rule the world by the Sharia law. My point is that once we defeat them in Iraq, right in the heart of the Middle East and the Arab world, we will crush their ability to establish and fulfill their islamic empire."

I understand your point, my response is that you have nothing to support this position other than wishful thinking. Iraq is not the heart of the Middle East but just another chess player on the board. Believing the entire worldwide jihadist movement revolves around Iraq is a dangerous miscalculation of the circumstances.

"The islamic terrorists have thrown everything they have in Iraq..."

Baloney. They have shipped in a bunch of religiuos zealots
willing to "die for Allah" and trapped a bomb on their chests. Their goal is not to defeat the US per se, it is to make the situation so unpalatable (and using the US political situation and media) that we pack up and go home. This IS how they define victory.

The Iraqi government is already compromised and no matter what shape we leave them in it will take Iran less than five years to make Iraq a de facto satellite state with control of the oil fields. That is unless the Sunni states like Saudi Arabia find an Iranian dominated state unthinkable.

One only has to see the Iraqi response to our assault on the Iranian "diplomatic mission" to understand which direction the Iraqi government is going and will go once we leave.

"...if they cannot establish their islamic empire starting in Iraq, it is over for them for many decades if not centuries to come."

Centuries? Right now all I see are the Shiites and Sunnis fighting to decide WHO is going to establish the "islamic empire" once we leave.

"That is why the winning in the Iraqi theater of war is incredibly important to win the overall war on terror."

I don't think anyone is disputing whether it is important or not, they question whether the "victory" that is envisioned is attainable and whether or not it ends up being Pyhrric. I think calling people who have these reasonable doubts traitors is way over the top. People have a right to their own opinions and to debate them. If you can't win them over based on the soundness of your argument calling them names is not going to do it. If they are moles the reasonable readers will see the superiority of your position and you will win them over.
371 posted on 01/18/2007 1:23:57 PM PST by Bob J (RIGHTALK.com...a conservative alternative to NPR!)
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To: Bob J
Historically and culturally, Arabs has always considered Iraq as the heart of the muslim civilization. In fact the old muslim empire reached its ultimate power under the Abbasi Caliphate which was headquartered in Iraq and particularly in Baghdad. Iraq is also “geographically” located at the center of the Middle East and any change in Iraq will certainly affects the whole region. Based on this I am saying that the defeat of terrorism in Iraq will crush the world wide islamic terrorism for a many decades if not centuries because they will not have the power to wage another major war and their ideology will be greatly defeated. As I said before I strongly believe that the defeat of terrorism in Iraq will lead to the collapse of the Iranian and Syrian regimes, these two terrorists regime cannot possibly go on when they have been defeated in Iraq.

You may consider it wishful thinking, and you want me to show you the proof. I cannot show an “exact proof” but I am writing to you about what I think will happen based on my knowledge of the area.

379 posted on 01/18/2007 1:44:16 PM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: Bob J; jveritas
Centuries? Right now all I see are the Shiites and Sunnis fighting to decide WHO is going to establish the "islamic empire" once we leave.

Take a look at an interview that Bill Ardolino, at InDC (temporarily renamed InIraq) Journal, did with a young, new Iraqi policeman last week:

He then told me that a secret war is going on in Fallujah. That citizens, fed up with the insurgency, are tracking down insurgents and killing them. These vigilantes then blame the killing on other insurgent groups, to try and get the splintered mass of terrorists to start killing each other.

You can read the whole interview at the link. It's interesting. It's good to see more bloggers going to Iraq as embeds. They are doing some very good reporting.

388 posted on 01/18/2007 2:23:40 PM PST by tgslTakoma
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