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When will world confront the undead of Croatia?
Baltimore Sun ^ | January 16, 2007 | Julia Gorin

Posted on 01/16/2007 12:17:36 PM PST by Bokababe

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To: Lovrek
>>>>>It is bit ironic to criticize Croatia, just when in Serbia The Radical Party (chetniks-fascists) won the elections on Sunday.<<<<

Gen. Draza Mihailovich, Commander of JVUO(Yugoslav Army in Homeland), known as "chetniks" was awarded the highest American military award for foreign soldier - A Legion of Merit"

To call Chetniks who saved over 500 American and 100 Allied pilots "fascists" shows what kind of people support Nazi Croatia. Brazen liars. (Nazi Croatia downed 150 U.S. planes)

Their behavior is not ironic, it is understandable. Burdened with Nazi past and present they take any opportunity to lie, lie in futile hope that their lies will wash their ugly truth away.

141 posted on 01/23/2007 6:04:00 AM PST by DTA (Mr. President., Condy is asleep at the wheel !)
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To: DTA

Chetniks saved less than 100 Allied pilots, and for each one they received a considerable payment in gold (ditto the Partizans). Whithout this reward the Chetniks would handed them to the Nazis, as they were allies of the Nazis. They excelled at slaughtering Bosnian Muslims, Croats and many Serbs. Chetnik vojvoda Djuretic received the Iron Cross from Hitler for his zeal in murdering innocent people.

Perhaps the most widely held myth is that during World War II the Serbs led the anti-fascist resistance and held down "dozens" (again pick a number) of elite Axis divisions in Yugoslavia. The reality is that like virtually every country on the European continent during World War II Serbia had a government which collaborated with the Axis. All of the nations of Yugoslavia had elements which supported the Axis, and all had elements that were anti-fascist. However, it was the Croatian-dominated Partizans, led by the Croatian Josip Broz Tito which formed the only true anti-fascist fighting force in Yugoslavia and the most formidable Allied force in occupied Europe during World War II (Churchill sent his son Randolph as his personal emissary to the Croatian partizans. According to the Museum of Revolution in Belgrade, 400.000 Croats took part in the resistance against the fasicsts.

The Serbs overwhelmingly supported the para-military forces known as the Chetniks which opposed the pro-Allied Partizans during the War.

When Yugoslavia disintegrated with the German invasion in April 1941, one faction of Chetniks swore allegiance to the new pro-Nazi Serbian government of General Milan Nedic. Another group remained under the pre-war leader Kosta Pecanac, who openly collaborated with the Germans. A third Chetnik faction followed the Serbian Fascist Dimitrije Ljotic. Ljotic's units were primarily responsible for tracking down Jews, Gypsies and Partizans for execution or deportation to concentration camps. By August 1942, the Serbian government would proudly announce that Belgrade was the first city in the New Order to be "Judenfrei" or "free of Jews." Only 1,115 of Belgrade's twelve thousand Jews would survive.


This is the truth!


142 posted on 01/23/2007 10:50:58 AM PST by Lovrek
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To: Lovrek
No it's not the truth. It is Croat propaganda trying to throw dirt on the Serbs' glory because you weren't awarded any medals or was Croatia given any recognition.

The pilots themselves and the Americans involved in arranging the rescue contradict what you say.

The Chetniks weren't rewarded in their lifetimes but instead were hunted down and killed by Tito and the communists. They received no aid at all, and were struggling while the communists, thanks to the British communist moles, were getting plenty of weapons and help which they didn't use to rescue Serbs in Ustasha camps, but instead turned to kill the Serbs desperately trying to stop the communists encroachment on top of the Nazi occupation.

As for the Bosnian Muslims, they were with the Ustasha, they were called the "flowers of the Croats" because of that. Others were a special project of Himmler, there are documents and photographs.

The Croats and Muslims were Hitler's Happy Helpers.

143 posted on 01/23/2007 11:07:22 AM PST by joan
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To: Lovrek
From: "Operatives, Spies, and Saboteurs: The Unknown Story of the Men and Women of WWII’s OSS" (2004)

by Patrick K. O’Donnell

[Chapter Six: Into the Balkans: Yugoslavia and Albania]

In the summer of 1944, OSS found the pretext it needed to reestablish contact with Mihailovic. Hundreds of downed American fliers were trapped in Chetnik-controlled territory. OSS approached the Partisans and British about the problem. When they failed to provide a solution, the Americans formed the Air Crew Rescue Unity (ACRU). Staffed primarily by OSS, ACRU officially rescued fliers. Covertly, Donovan once again directed it to reestablish contact with Mihailovic. In August 1944, the Halyard Team, led by Captain Musulin, parachuted into Pranjane, about 80 kilometers south of Belgrade, where the Chetniks were caring for 250 downed Allied fliers. After parachuting into Pranjane, Team Halyard supervised construction of a runway, which C-47 transport planes would use to evacuate hundreds of airmen.

Art Jibilian, who had recently returned from Linn Farish’s mission with Tito, was asked to join Halyard. “I was contacted since I was an experienced radio operator behind the lines. They asked, ‘Would you like to go in again?’ I said, ‘Sure.’

“It took us almost a month to get in because the British didn’t want us to go in….[They didn’t want] Mihailovic to get credit for helping American airmen.

“After about a month we finally got into Pranjane. When we landed we found not 50 but 250 airmen. They were in pretty bad shape. Some of them had wounds they had been force-marched, et cetera. Many did not have boots in the parachute jumps but the natives made sure they had something on their feet. These people fed the men; 250 take up a lot of resources and those people fed these men at the expense of themselves and their children.

“Directing about 300 laborers, we built the airstrip. When we were with the Halyard Mission, preparing an airfield to evacuate downed fliers, the Partisans were shelling us with our own ammunition that we had dropped to them.

“About a week after we arrived, the first C-47s landed and started taking the men out. We got these airmen back to Italy. It was beautiful. The men were so grateful for the help the Chetniks gave them. They gave their clothes, jackets, and anything they could spare to these people since they were in such desperate need of them.”


144 posted on 01/23/2007 11:15:13 AM PST by joan
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US airman under Serbian care

From a great thread:

World War II Rescued American Airmen Defend Serbs

145 posted on 01/23/2007 11:25:12 AM PST by joan
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To: joan
The Chetniks weren't rewarded in their lifetimes but instead were hunted down and killed by Tito and the communists.

Incorrect. The majority of Serbian Chetniks joined the Communists when it was obvious that the Nazi-allied Chetniks were losing the war.

They received no aid at all

Incorrect again. First the Italians, and then later the Germans armed the Serbian Chetniks.

and were struggling while the communists, thanks to the British communist moles

Actually, it was because the Chetniks weren't fighting the Axis, but rather collaborating with them.

As for the Bosnian Muslims, they were with the Ustasha, they were called the "flowers of the Croats" because of that. Others were a special project of Himmler, there are documents and photographs.

The Ustasha opposed Himmler's project as per Vrancic's lobbying with Kasche and later with Hitler himself.

The Croats and Muslims were Hitler's Happy Helpers.

Like the Serbs, who overwhelmingly collaborated with the Germans.

146 posted on 01/23/2007 11:29:19 AM PST by Diocletian (visit www.speakeasy.invisionzone.com - it's new and it's pretty silly)
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To: DTA

DTA: Ronald Reagan was a very vocal supporter of Croatian independence along with Margaret Thatcher.


147 posted on 01/23/2007 11:33:59 AM PST by Diocletian (visit www.speakeasy.invisionzone.com - it's new and it's pretty silly)
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To: DTA
According to German sources, Ustasha murdered 350,000 only in the first 10 months of the war.

No they didn't. Postwar demographic studies show this figure to be impossible.

148 posted on 01/23/2007 11:35:19 AM PST by Diocletian (visit www.speakeasy.invisionzone.com - it's new and it's pretty silly)
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To: Diocletian
Attacks and fights between the Germans and the Chetniks were witnessed, but not all Chetnik units were under Draza's control. He was very limited.

There was much, much more aid to Tito, and Serbs were often threatened and beaten to join the Partizans - tortured and killed if they refused to join. This was witness by American operatives on the ground.

Also, the Germans had 100s of thousands of Serbs they kept in jail or in camps in Germany. A people who were cooperative wouldn't be locked up or killed in such great numbers.

Serbs were also hung and shot in Belgrade, Pancevo, Novi Sad. There are photos of this. They did resist; the Croats didn't and weren't punished by the Germans.

149 posted on 01/23/2007 11:35:34 AM PST by joan
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To: DTA
The rest of the Croats and Muslims were busy fighting for Hitler and Pavelic.The Serbs weren't fighting for Pavelic, but they sure were fighting alongside Hitler. Especially at the Battle of the Neretva, at Sutjeska, etc.
150 posted on 01/23/2007 11:36:15 AM PST by Diocletian (visit www.speakeasy.invisionzone.com - it's new and it's pretty silly)
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To: joan
Attacks and fights between the Germans and the Chetniks were witnessed, but not all Chetnik units were under Draza's control. He was very limited.

Draza directly controlled maybe 5 to 10% of all Serbian Chetniks. The Chetniks of Dalmatia never fought the Axis, but they did collaborate. The Chetniks of Lika never fought the Axis, but they did collaborate. The Chetniks of Banija and Kordun never fought the Axis, but they did collaborate. The Chetniks of Western Bosnia never fought the Axis, but they did collaborate. The Chetniks of Hercegovina fought the Germans only for a few months, but collaborated for the rest of the war. The Chetniks of Eastern Bosnia began collaboration in December 1941 under Major Dangic and that lasted the rest of the War. The Chetniks of Montenegro stopped fighting the Axis in late 1941 and collaborated the rest of the war. The Chetniks of Sumadija began collaboration when the Germans rolled in, under Kosta Pecanac. Draza's minority faction began direct collaboration with the Axis in early 1943.

There was much, much more aid to Tito, and Serbs were often threatened and beaten to join the Partizans - tortured and killed if they refused to join. This was witness by American operatives on the ground.

Yet the Serb Chetniks still choose to collaborate with Hitler.

Also, the Germans had 100s of thousands of Serbs they kept in jail or in camps in Germany. A people who were cooperative wouldn't be locked up or killed in such great numbers.And stil the Serbian Chetniks collaborated with Hitler.

Serbs were also hung and shot in Belgrade, Pancevo, Novi Sad. There are photos of this. They did resist; the Croats didn't and weren't punished by the Germans.

The vast majority of Serbs collaborated and any resistance by Serbian Chetniks ended quickly as they decided to collaborate.

151 posted on 01/23/2007 11:41:54 AM PST by Diocletian (visit www.speakeasy.invisionzone.com - it's new and it's pretty silly)
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To: Diocletian
Seems like you are using a lot of 'ol Tito's arguments against the Chetniks.

The temporary collaboration with the Italians was due to the Italians protecting Serbs against the Ustasha. The Italilans also had a STELLAR record of protecting the Balkan Jews.

All the Jews who made it to Italian-controlled areas in the Balkans were saved and treated well. The Italians didn't kill any of them.

Therefore "collaborating" with the Italians in the Balkans was acting against the Nazi scheme towards Jews and Serbs for the Italians didn't follow those aspects of the program.

See, says here that Tito used this working with the Italians (who were betraying the Nazi and Ustasha murderous plands in the Balkans) by "Montenegrin Chetniks" (not Draza's anyhow) as collaboration with the Nazis. It was solely to save their lives.

Early Montenegrin Chetniks-Italian cooperation occurred without the approval or acknowledgement of Mihailovic. He made no particular attempts to restrict the collaboration of various Chetnik groups and this oversight was later used against him. Overall, the term Chetnik described numerous bands of resistance although few acknowledged any allegiance to Mihailovic. Unfortunately, with the attitudes shaped by propaganda and sheer ignorance of the Balkan region, the British and Americans failed to fully understand the relationship between Mihailovic’s Chetniks, and other anti-Partisan groups. Tito masterfully used this misinterpretation to his benefit, as the collaboration issue became a main reason for the shift in Allied support away from the Chetniks.

152 posted on 01/23/2007 11:52:18 AM PST by joan
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Source: http://www.usna.edu/History/honors/2003/GordonThesis.doc
153 posted on 01/23/2007 11:53:38 AM PST by joan
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Lots of commie propaganda against the Chetniks by the Brits and Stalin. The Brits and Stalin were together against the Serbs. The Serbs resisted and suffered greatly the Nazis and the Communists, and the hyperkilling Croats.

The following also shows the huge discrepancy in the amounts of weapons the British supplied the Partisans versus the Chetniks - in less than 1/2 the time, the British gave 1000 times more supplies to the Partisans versus the Chetniks. And since most of all these THOUSANDS OF TONS OF WEAPONS WERE TURNED ON THE CHETNIKS AND SERB CIVILIANS, BRITISH INVOLVEMENT WAS VERY MUCH A NET LOSS FOR SERBS AND THE DECIDER (ALONG WITH THE BOMBING BEING USED AS TITO'S AIRFORCE) IN CREATING A COMMUNIST YUGOSLAVIA. BLAME THE BRITS FOREMOST.

… British-Chetnik relations took a turn for the worse in July of 1942 when Radio Free Yugoslavia, a pro-Communist station transmitting from the Soviet Union, began broadcasting anti-Chetnik reports. At the same time, British SOE Operative Capt. Bill Hudson began reporting from inside Yugoslavia… The BBC began to give the Partisans credit for Chetnik sabotage efforts, while circulating blatant and inaccurate accounts of Chetnik collaboration with the Germans. “Even before the new [British] policy had been approved, the BBC had on its own initiative started to compliment his [Mihailovic’s] opponents.” The successful Chetnik attack on German supplies and bridge at Visegrad in September 1943 was instead credited to the Partisan effort. This disinformation continued into 1943 and only exacerbated the worsening situation between the British and Mihailovic.

Radio Free Yugoslavia presented the first instance of the Soviet Government taking a definite anti-Mihailovic stance. The British decided not to denounce the Soviet propaganda for fear of alienating the Partisan forces.

… Regrettably, the British reneged on their promise to supply Mihailovic and his Chetniks, delivering less than thirty tons of supplies between late 1941 and mid 1943.

Conversely, the Partisans received unprecedented quantities of arms, ammunition, clothes, and medical supplies.

…The British, who had become more and more inclined towards the Partisans over the previous two years, actually began to compensate the Partisans much more than Mihailovic had ever received. According to a British report on 20 December 1943, the Chetniks had received only 653 rifles, 14.6 tons of explosives, 625 Bren guns, and 3,346 grenades totaling nearly 30 tons in all over the previous 18 months. In contrast, the Partisans received 5,000 plane loads totaling 6,900 tons by air plus 22,000 tons by sea from British sources alone in merely nine months, between April and December 1943. The Americans also played an important role in supplying the Partisan forces. Following the Italian surrender, the OSS scouted the eastern Italian coast for an advance base. Major Louis Huot of OSS Bari, implemented Operation AUDREY, which from 15 October 1943 to early January 1944 sent over 6,500 tons of supplies to Partisan-controlled areas of the Dalmatian coast. In addition to supplies, AUDREY ferried new recruits rescued from Italian jails over to the Partisans while evacuating wounded soldiers for improved medical treatment. Most importantly, Partisan troops and workers arrived at OSS Bari to assist in the operation of beginning a permanent Partisan presence with the OSS. During the same time period, Mihailovic only received 107 tons of supplies, all by aircraft drop.


154 posted on 01/23/2007 12:04:50 PM PST by joan
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To: joan

The collaboration with the Italians wasn't temporary. And the Serbians of the Italian zone never ever fought against the Axis and were its allies.


155 posted on 01/23/2007 12:17:22 PM PST by Diocletian (visit www.speakeasy.invisionzone.com - it's new and it's pretty silly)
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To: joan

Joan: Please tell us when the Serbs of Dalmatia, Bosnia, Hercegovina, Montenegro and Serbia actually fought the Germans and didn't side with them?


156 posted on 01/23/2007 12:18:25 PM PST by Diocletian (visit www.speakeasy.invisionzone.com - it's new and it's pretty silly)
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To: Diocletian
Here is a fight with the Germans witnessed by Walter Mansfield two weeks after he went to Mihailovic's headquarters. For the limited time American's were with the Chetniks, they witnessed a German fight and they witnessed the rescue of the airmen who were fed and treated well by the Serb villagers:

“Operatives, Spies, and Saboteurs: The Unknown Story of the Men and Women of WWII’s OSS” (2004) by Patrick K. O’Donnell

Mansfield parachuted into Draza Mihailovic’s headquarters in the third week of August 1943, where he spent several months surveying the Chetnik army and political environment. A few days later his counterpart, Captain Melvin Benson, parachuted into Marshal Tito’s (Josip Broz’s) headquarters.

Two weeks after his drop, Mansfield received his first taste of war in Yugoslavia.

“Two spies were captured and I had the unpleasant experience of seeing them get their throats slit….

“On the following morning, 6 September, the Germans let us have it and I had my first taste of combat. In the early morning mist a force of about 200 Germans came up the mountainside while we were asleep. All of a sudden all hell broke loose, with heavy machine [gun] fire ‘dum-dumming’ and light machine [gun fire] rat-tatting in all directions, right close by. Bailey [a British liaison officer attached to Mihailovic] and I threw on our pants and shoes, grabbed our rifles and ‘quick-packs,’ slit a hole through the back of our tent and jumped into the woods. We could see the Jerries coming up over the hills at about 400 yards in their blue-green uniforms with rifles, and opened up fire ourselves. But there did not seem to be any front. Machine guns, Sten guns were being fired from all directions, both in front and in back of us, and were cutting branches in the trees overhead. Bailey suggested we back further into the woods, which we did. Finally we did a semi-circle about a half-mile back. The firing continued another hour and a half. We learned that the Germans had been driven back down the mountain. We then went back, got our horses and things and returned to Mihailovic.

“Several were killed on both sides and some prisoners taken. I saw one prisoner being alternately questioned and then kicked and beaten. Later I was told that he had had his throat cut.” (3)


157 posted on 01/23/2007 12:36:59 PM PST by joan
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To: joan
That's one fight. Now, as you admitted, Draza had little control over the overwhelming majority of Chetniks. Even so, Draza began accepting Nazi arms shortly after this fight.

Keep going Joan....should we bring up the Battle of the Neretva and the role of the Knin and Hercegovina Chetniks? :)

158 posted on 01/23/2007 12:43:58 PM PST by Diocletian (visit www.speakeasy.invisionzone.com - it's new and it's pretty silly)
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To: joan

Or maybe the role of the Legal Chetniks under Pecanac? or the Chetniks under Dangic? What about the Montenegrin Chetniks under Djurisic?


159 posted on 01/23/2007 12:46:30 PM PST by Diocletian (visit www.speakeasy.invisionzone.com - it's new and it's pretty silly)
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To: Diocletian
>>>>>>The Serbs weren't fighting for Pavelic, but they sure were fighting alongside Hitler. Especially at the Battle of the Neretva, at Sutjeska, etc.<<<<<

Geez. Can you enlighten us what Croats were doing during Operation Weiss (neretva) and Operation Schwartz (Sutjeska)? Smelling daisies?

You speak of spring of 1943. Both Croatian regular army (Domobrans) and Croatian Nazis (Ustashas) fought alongside German and Italian forces. Besides Tito, the number of Croats in Tito's partisans was negligible before September 15 1943.

In stark comparrisson, Serbs were divided between Chetniks and Partisans and fought a civil war.

You regurgitate an awful lot of Communist propaganda for someone who claims to be an anti-communist.

160 posted on 01/23/2007 1:08:23 PM PST by DTA (Mr. President., Condy is asleep at the wheel !)
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