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The women overwhelmingly reject the hard working, sober men who would make good spouses. The women overwhelmingly hook-up for short term relationships with men who provide them with entertainment and excitement, even when that excitement is domestic violence, cheating on them, financial irresponsibility, etc.

That's true but they are drawn to those men because they are more exciting and sexy. Many hard working, sober men are just boring or duds. Of course they aren't going to pique a woman's sexual interest.

I have discussed this many times in debunking the 'women like jerks, reject nice guys' mentality. It's not that they like jerks, they are just turned on by masculine traits, and jerks have unambiguously (and often exaggerated) masculine traits.

Nicer guys often go to some length to tone down their masculinity so as to not appear threatening or 'like the other guys.' That makes no sense - they are toning down sex appeal and expecting a stronger sexual response.

I don't buy into the nice guy/jerk paradigm. Women tend to want a good, masculine man. An excessively nice, too accommodating male comes across as less than masculine and is rejected by women, regardless of how stable he is.

I don't buy into the nice guy/jerk paradigm. Women tend to want a good, masculine man. An excessively nice, too accommodating male comes across as less than masculine and is rejected by women, regardless of how stable he is.

So, how does a man stay masculine enough within a marriage to sustain a wife's interest when it comes time to do the dishes, clean the cat-box, etc?

[Nice Guy Dud here]

Nicer guys often go to some length to tone down their masculinity so as to not appear threatening or 'like the other guys.' That makes no sense - they are toning down sex appeal and expecting a stronger sexual response.

This is learned behavior, and the important question is: what elements in our society are teaching men that they need to act this way? And almost nobody on FR likes to look squarely at the answers (Hint: it sure ain't Gloria Steinem...)

The nice guy/jerk complex has been going on for quite a long time - read Jane Austen and you'll see the exact same dynamics were at work 200 years ago. There are straightforward solutions to it, but they are off-topic for FR and as you well know most of the men here won't listen, anyway. ;)

(PS: You never explained what your tagline comes from...)

Well said. My favorite example is the "shy" guy. Call him what he is, a wimp. Of course no woman in her right mind is going to be turned on by a guy who's too timid to cross the room and chat her up. What possible reason could she have to find that attractive?