Posted on 01/15/2007 7:30:56 AM PST by devane617
SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) -- For more than a decade, I've written about the need to reform Social Security. And I've blamed older generations of Americans for not fixing a program they know is unsustainable into the future. My bad. It turns out, if I wanted to get everyone up in arms, all I needed to do was blame illegal immigrants. Ah, yes. The folks who, we are told, wrecked our schools, ruined our environment and lowered our wages are now poised to steal our Social Security. Oh, there's some stealing going on all right, but it doesn't have anything to do with illegal immigrants.
Immigration restrictionists are apoplectic over the news that the United States has entered into a "totalization" agreement with Mexico. Under these agreements, which the United States has with 21 other countries, workers who work in two countries during their careers can combine what they earned in both places to qualify for retirement benefits under one or both systems. The restrictionists insist that the U.S. government has conspired with Mexico to let illegal immigrants loot the Social Security system. That would be quite a charge, if true. But these pacts apply only to people who are working legally.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
Ruben Navarrette Jr. is a race baiting illegal alien apologist, ergo, he is a racist.
While I can't be bothered to look up the exact number IIRC a few months ago it was 1 illegal to every 12 or 13 citizens. Ok, Reuben, deport all illegals and then get back to me on that math.
"immigration restrictionists"?
Yet another attempt to ensure that the distinction between legal immigrants and illegal aliens is completely obliterated.
Later in the article Naverette says: "But there is no law prohibiting illegal immigrants with bogus Social Security numbers from paying into the system, something they and their employers do to the tune of more than $7 billion per year in payroll taxes.
That's money the illegal immigrants will never see again, and it has for years helped to keep the entitlement program afloat."
BUT - he doesn't bother to account for the EIC refund which illegals do get when they use a Tax id# instead of a SS.
In 2004, they got TEN billion in refunds!
TEN BILLION dollars was given back to illegal aliens in income tax refunds (EIC) in 2004. And of course the government knows where they are!
TEN BILLION.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/04/gb.01.html
BECK: This is insanity. You know, I just saw a number -- and tell me if this number is right, if you even have it -- I just saw a number on, in 2004, what we paid illegal aliens in tax refunds, 2004. Do you know this number?
CAMAROTA: Yes, I believe -- the figure I`ve heard is about $10 billion. That`s based on estimates that the Treasury Department has done itself, $10 billion they paid back to illegal aliens.
BECK: That is insane. We`re paying them $10 billion, and we can`t arrest them, we can`t even find them, we don`t even know -- $10 billion? And now we`re giving them Social Security, one that we don`t need another country to sabotage for us. We`re doing it ourselves. The whole thing is going to collapse.
CAMAROTA: Yes, and what`s worse than that is, that the IRS issues them tax I.D. numbers so that they can then file their income tax with their false Social Security numbers so that we can give them their $10 billion back.
BECK: OK, all right. So the last thing here -- let me just role play here for a second. I`m an illegal alien. I have to now go to the government and prove to the government that I have a fake I.D., that I bought a fake Social Security card on the street in the black market, and then the government rewards me for that, right?
CAMAROTA: Yes, in effect, sure. Once you get legal status, then you apply for the credits that you earned while you were an illegal alien. And the way you do that is like you said: You show your false documents. You bring out your bogus tax returns, and so forth.
The author says:: "But there is no law prohibiting illegal immigrants with bogus Social Security numbers from paying into the system, something they and their employers do to the tune of more than $7 billion per year in payroll taxes.
That's money the illegal immigrants will never see again, and it has for years helped to keep the entitlement program afloat. So Social Security lives off ill-gotten goods -- the stolen taxes of millions of people, and the assumption that they'll never be claimed."
I say:The taxes are not illegal. The incomes are. Just like taxing illegal gambling and sales of drugs. No one is making these people break the law. We are not stealing anything.
ping
Yes, and we know how meticulous Mexicans are for filing their tax returns on time, and submitting the payments owed for social security and taxes on their income.
CNN article- figures. Yes their robbery going on, the American citizen- herein known as "the taxpayer" is getting robbed, paying for benifits for people who never payed a dime towards them.
With fifty persons per household you paid for three households.
Immigration restrictionists
You might have read "Math for Dummies" Ruben, but you are also well versed in "Phrases for Propagandists".
You're bad alright.
He's a propagandist for Mexico. He could care less about real criticism. He pretends to be objective but that's just an act to fool the rubes (er, Gringos) - his goal is break down opposition to the invasion and convince us to acquiesce to outright rule by him and his fellow nationals...and his nation is not the American one.
Nothing but a shill.
That's money the illegal immigrants will never see again, and it has for years helped to keep the entitlement program afloat. So Social Security lives off ill-gotten goods -- the stolen taxes of millions of people, and the assumption that they'll never be claimed.
How odd that the closed-border, closed-mind crowd isn't nearly as troubled by this part of the equation.
First off illegals fiddle with dependents on W2 forms like you wouldn't believe. They can even claim unverified children inn Mexico
#2 I'm damn glad that illegals pay into SS with no hope of getting benefits from SS and it should stay that way. If it's 7 billion per year as Nazvertte claims, then great. This helps balance the billions that illegals rip off for free education for illegal alien children and using our hospitals without paying a dime. And now they want college tuition breaks and scholarships. Not to mention welfare, housing, food stamps that illegal alien families can get when a child was born here
Okay, let's slow down.
Compartmentalize the numbers. Do not explode into a rant about matters that are not explicitly and narrowly about Soc. Security. For the moment, let's restrict discussion ONLY to Social Security.
If I am understanding what it said correctly, those illegals using bogus SS numbers ARE in fact paying into the SS system and they will never see any benefits from that.
Yes, I know you want explode with "yes, buts", but for the moment let's just stop and understand each aspect of reality. Illegals using bogus numbers are paying into the SS system and will never collect from it. That is, in fact, a net positive to the SS system.
NOW. Let's look at these other aspects. The EIC rebate that illegals are filing for . . . . I don't understand this. If they have a bogus SS number, is that how the EIC is claimed? The SS number would have to be on the 1040 EZ form filed. If it is a number that is not assigned to ANYONE by the SSA, then how can they collect a check that has no name on it? If it is a SS number that IS assigned to someone, then the name on the check would not match any ID the illegal could present to a bank so again I don't understand how they collect the money.
So two points in this post. 1) Let's accept that illegals on bogus numbers ARE a net influx to the SS system and 2) can someone explain how the EIC check with someone else's name on it is collected by an illegal -- especially if the name is John Carson and a clearly Hispanic person presents it to a bank teller for deposit.
Did you see my post above. The alien files for a Tax ID#. They file in their name (or name of the day!)and get a refund. In 2004 the EIC refunds to ILLEGAL aliens was 10 BILLION dollars.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalfindings.html
Treasury Department Report. The results of our study are also buttressed by an analysis of illegal alien tax returns done by the Inspector General's Office of the Department of Treasury in 2004.35 That study found that 55 percent of illegal aliens who filed income tax returns using tax identification numbers had no federal income tax liability. While higher than the 45 percent estimated in this study, it must be remembered that this figure was only for those who filed tax returns using a tax identification number. These are all individuals who expected refunds, otherwise they would not have gone to the trouble of getting tax identification numbers and filing a return. But like our estimates, the Inspector General's report indicates that roughly half of illegals have no tax liability, reflecting their very low incomes and large number of dependents. ________________
http://www.ustreas.gov/tigta/congress/congress_03102004.htm
The number of ITINs issued in the last few years has increased dramatically, climbing from 1.1 million in 2001 to 1.5 million in 2002--a one-year increase of about 36 percent. Normally, ITINs would be used to file a Form 1040NR—U.S. Nonresident Alien Income Tax Return. However, many ITINs are used to file Forms 1040, which creates challenges for tax administration. Our analysis of Forms 1040 filed in Tax Year 2001 with ITINs found that approximately 530,000 Forms 1040 were filed with ITINs as the primary number by aliens who resided in the U.S., but who were not authorized to work and, in general, to reside in the U.S.
* These returns reported adjusted gross income of $10.7 billion. After tax deductions and credits, these tax returns reported a total liability of $184 million. * Over half of the tax returns reported no tax liability, and $522 million in tax refunds were claimed on these returns.
Thanks. I think I forgot about that.
Okay, that's good data, but wait a minute.
The government website URL you quoted specifies only that through use of the Tax ID numbers (which it says towards the end are being further restricted as of 2003) taxes paid are being refunded. It only says income taxes withheld are being refunded. That's not a net ouflow.
It says nothing of $10 billion in EIC.
The other website you quoted is not an official information source and I've never heard of them. Regardless of that, within that website there is no mention of EIC. Rather than take apart those numbers to try to justify EIC, your argument would be better made if you could find explicit government sources of published numbers -- not numbers propagated by organizations that may have an agenda.
Yes, you can imagine that the government has an agenda too, and maybe they do, but your argument is going nowhere without numbers from more respectable sources.
Your government URL is excellent, though, and it is encouraging to see that the government is (presumably already is, given that the quotes are from 2003) now more restrictive in issuing non SS Tax IDs.
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