Rival gangs of 10-year-olds trade death threats (Sweden's multiculturalism?)

The Local ^ | January 12 | TT/The Local

[WesternCulture]

"Living in Sweden as you do, do you think the Muslim immigrants and their descendants can be good Swedes? Do you think that, as a rule, they are?"

3.9% of the Swedish population are Muslims. But what kind of Muslims?

A vast majority of them are very law abiding and productive. The biggest problem in terms of adopting to modern western society is found among immigrants from North East Africa. At an early stage they were socially dysfunctional which probably was due to 1. Potential Swedish employers being highly reluctant of hiring them 2. These people having very little knowledge about the world outside their African villages/towns 3. Psychological conditions caused by war traumas.

These East African natives developed a feeling of not belonging anywhere in this world and even though they weren't anything like fanatic Muslims upon their arrival here in Sweden, their difficulties of adopting to Swedish society and the failure of Swedish authorities of figuring out how to help these people to get on with creating a better future for themselves, they became an easy prey for Saudi Arabian missionaries. These "enlightened" Muslim agents taught them to avoid mixing with the "infidels" and upon receiving these words of wisdom, they started to isolate themselves even more.

"Muslim" immigrants from Iran and Iraq is a completely different story. For instance, 1. Many of them are well educated people from the upper middle and upper class of their respective countries of origin 2. Many of them have managed to find jobs or have successfully started up businesses of their own. 3. Most of them were/are strongly opposed to the any kind of dictatorship, be it to the one of Saddam or the mullahs.

These people are very far from being "jihad"Muslims. Many even eat pork and drink alcohol.

Then we have other groups of "Muslim" immigrants, like people from Lebanon. Some of them are secularized, others are Muslims who are on the side of the "Palestine cause".

I think it ought to be noted that something like 20% of all persons who are born "Muslims" in Sweden have completely turned their backs on Islam and about 50% are "Muslims in name only" or "secularized" Muslims. Something like 25% want to live in a strict Muslim fashion while not being "fanatic". The last segment, one I estimate to consist of around 3-5% of the Swedish Muslims, are more or less fanatic. Not fanatic in the way they are likely to become suicide bombers, but fanatic in their political views and religious beliefs.

If we, the friends of civilization, manage to solve the Israelian-Palestinian conflict together with other more or less civilized nations as well as the situation in Iraq and the one in Afghanistan, no one will wish to be a Muslim suicide bomber. There will be no social situation breeding young minds geared to kill for a vain cause. However, beware, it can not be done without military action, bloodshed and mothers crying in grief.

[JerseyHighlander]

Thank you for presenting post #21 above.

I'd just want to point out that suicide bombing is now a standard operating procedure of Muslim fighters the world over. Chechnya, Afghanistan, Iraq, have all seen it done, and the tactic of suicide bombing will be with us for a very long time. Many of the suicide bombers in Iraq are not Iraqis, when the surviving jihadists disperse at some point, they will bring this tactic along with them.

Anyway, gangs like this a re a common occurrence in every society with immigrant populations and mixed neighborhoods, the Swedish police chief looks like an utterly incompetent and wholly worthless empty suit for even bringing this to the media's attention.

[WesternCulture]

"Many of the suicide bombers in Iraq are not Iraqis, when the surviving jihadists disperse at some point, they will bring this tactic along with them."

True, but what I meant to say is that provided the sane people of the world actually would succeed in solving the conflict in Iraq and the one between Israel and the Palestines (in cooperation with the people living in these parts of the world), there would be no real source of inspiration for "Jihad" in any country. Perhaps I was unclear.

"Anyway, gangs like this a re a common occurrence in every society with immigrant populations and mixed neighborhoods, the Swedish police chief looks like an utterly incompetent and wholly worthless empty suit for even bringing this to the media's attention".

Söderhamn is a small town, even by Swedish standards. I reckon few police officers at this level know how to deal properly with such a situation. Whoever was the first person to call for national attention to the problem, this officer doesn't put prestige over duty. On the contrary, he admits that he can't handle it, which I think actually gives testimony to a certain level of personal judgment and maturity.

It's primarily because of poor PC politicians this situation has developed, not poor police work.

[untenured]

Thank you for response, which is certainly reassuring. My fears are deeper with respect to France and Holland.

If we, the friends of civilization, manage to solve the Israelian-Palestinian conflict together with other more or less civilized nations as well as the situation in Iraq and the one in Afghanistan, no one will wish to be a Muslim suicide bomber.

Alas, here we will have to disagree. I think the Arab world and Pakistan have problems that run far deeper than rage at Israel. (So does this guy.) Indeed, I think Arab dictators (including the Palestinian ones) need the Palestinian problem to continue to fester to divert their people's rage from the corrupt, brutal governance around them. (I hope one of them will prove me wrong, as Sadat and King Hussein did in a more innocent age.)

[WesternCulture]

"Alas, here we will have to disagree. I think the Arab world and Pakistan have problems that run far deeper than rage at Israel. "

Good comment.

Still, it seems like we will continue to disagree on several issues. Like you said.

Looks like I'm more optimistic than you are.

My impression is that a single step towards true cultural values could get a whole nation going in the right direction.

But for this to happen, it has to be a major leap.

Pakistan of today is a what the Britons would call a "sick farce".

BUT, I sincerely believe it would actually take very little of investments and propaganda efforts etc to make millions of people in Pakistan shift their minds from antagonism towards the West to a more intelligent approach to the situation surrounding them.

It's a sad thing that the energy and rage these people today, wrongfully, direct towards the West instead could have been used for overthrowing an incompetent government and building a future for their very own sons and daughters.

But one day, I think they'll be able to do what India and China presently are doing.