Posted on 01/08/2007 1:42:34 PM PST by libertarianPA
"I'm a tenor."
Not to worry. I think I'm coming down with a cold so I can carry the base for at least a month.
Looks like Arnold isn't nearly as smart as we thought he was. This will drive businesses out of California in droves. The "genius" Mario Cuomo also succeeded in driving businesses away, when will politicians learn they can't "give" anything away. It's our money knuckleheads. Stop treating illegal immigrants unless it's an emergency and you will solve the "health care crisis"
Republicans are so stupid on this issue, let's say there were very few illegal immigrants in our country, our health care and car insurance would not be so astronomical. This rationale that we save 20 cents on fruits and vegetable picked by illegals is better than paying 2000 dollars on insurance is making insurance sometimes unattainable for businesses, individuals, the self-employed, etc.
It's not defrauding the system to use the emergency room. She had pneumonia. In case you don't know, pneumonia is painful and you know your going to die if you don't get the antibiotics. All it takes is the antibiotics to obtain a cure. The cost should be less than a $100, but it's not.
She can't pay cash to docs. That's not allowed. Docs that take medicare patients can't take cash, by fed rules. A simple case like this can be handled cheap, but no, too many rules, overhead procedures and costs.
All musclehead's scheme is going to do is take more money from folks that are already paying for this system in the first place and direct a significantly larger percentage of money to the healthcare jobs industry. Then after that they'll go nuts with health issue rules and justify them with "were paying for your bad whatever".
There is absolutely no legitimate reason for employers to be required to pay health insurance. It's idiotic.
They might as well require dairy farmers or red-headed athletes to pay everyone's health insurance. It makes as much sense.
Ideally, everyone would be responsible for their own health insurance.
And why does health insurance pay for every little ailment that afflicts you. That would be like home owners insurance that pays to fix your garage door when it wears out or car insurance that pays to change your oil. No wonder that stuff costs so much.
No. all it takes is a Cipro, or similar prescription and bedrest. That's it.
"going to the emergency room under an assumed name."
No one has to go to the emergency room under an assumed name.
..."Arnie stating his desire to have this coverage extended to those members of society which are here under the radar... i.e.: illegals."
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HOW in the world are the folks of California going to be able to pay for this?
That's insurance to cover damages to the person that are caused by the job. It includes health care coverage for job related disease and injury.
" Right now my taxes are paying for all these uninsured patients that are crowding out and forcing shut all the emergency rooms."
So all you're advocating is paying more taxes.
"I think it is bad stewardship not to see that the burden imposed by that law is not spread out to businesses, individuals, insurance companies and the state."
The bad stewardship award goes to the clowns that engineered the expensive over regulated litigative med system in the first place.
You don't know the facts of this case. She never thought she had pneumonia, but ultimately it killed her by taxing her heart.
I brought up this case because it serves as a real life example of how our health care system is broken and how something needs to be done. To be frank, this lady could not have gotten insurance on her own and had to take a job with a large company in order to get it at all. She was required to wait at least 6 months before converage could start. She had some other conditions that essentially made her uninsurable and ultimately contributed to her death. I suspect that if she had health insurance or some reasonable alternative, then she would have sought treatment instead of trying to self treat with cold medications.
Right now I am paying not only for my own health insurance, but also for the non-payors, illegal aliens, deadbeats and cheats. And because of our ligitation mess, the costs of insurance for someone on the fringes is simply astronomical.
I'm not convinced that the governator's plan will work, it probably won't. But something needs to be done. People are dying out there for lack of coverage. We can fall back on our knee jerk conservatism, but the fact is that not having insurance and not having legitimate access to it can kill you or destroy your life.
Don't tell me that some single mother working at an entry level job can "afford" health insurance. If it were not provided by my employer (along with all the group discounts) I know for a fact that I would have a difficult time getting it on my own. Indeed, I suspect that I am probably uninsurable at this point in my life, so in the absense of a group policy, I'm outa luck.
With this plan, no one would be out of luck. everyone would be given the opportunity to have access to "affordable" health coverage.
So fix it.
In the interm, people are dying and lives are being ruined. That is a fact of life. Should we be unconcerned about their plight? Ought we not to be willing to make some sacrifice for others? We never know when we may have to walk in those shoes. There, but for the grace of God, go I.
Who paid for your health coverage when you were in the service? Would it not be those dairy farmers and red-headed atheletes?
And are you paying for your own health coverage now? Or is it part of your salary, and do you not get the benefit of group discounts not available to the average knucklehead who is either self employed or working for some company that doesn't provide health coverage.
This is a problem that goes beyond our knee jerk conservatism. For many people this is a life and death situation. We need to take that into consideration.
I am leaning towards a workers compensation type system for general health coverage. A cost of doing business. Businesses are required to have workers compensation coverage. It would not be that much more of a burden to also require either a payroll tax to cover healthcare or a requirement that they also provide healthcare coverage.
I'm basically thinking out loud here, but this is something we need to think about.
Federal law requires that illegals be treated - so they're going to get medical care. The question then becomes what is the most cost effective way to do it?
Here is your rising health care costs in a few short phrases.
Hospitals are required to help certainly every dying person.
Those hospitals incur costs.
They past the costs on to insurance companies and the rest of us.
Illegals pour across the border.
The hospitals become more burdened and hike their costs.
And the cycle continues.
We need to either tell Hospitals to let people die(by telling them they can't pass on costs of goodwill care)... or we have to force everyone to have health insurance.
Which sounds better to you?
By the way even without the illegal problem you still have 41 million uninsured Americans who also contribute a big dollar amount in costs to the system.
We ARE all paying now.
Arnold has been taken over by Californication and a born 'n bred Kennedy. 'Nuf said.
I sure do. You said pneumonia. That's all I need to know. Pneumonia doesn't tax the heart. It's possible septicemia set in and the particular bug attacked her heart muscle. Regardless, antibiotics would have shut it down fast and cheap. That's assuming the docs could ID pneumonia and differentiate the possible causes, which most can't.
"I brought up this case because it serves as a real life example of how our health care system is broken and how something needs to be done."
It's not an example of how the system's broken. It's an example of how the system is a complicated monopolistic scheme. You're advocating forced charity, no more, no less.
"Right now I am paying not only for my own health insurance, but also for the non-payors, illegal aliens, deadbeats and cheats."
As I said, nothing will reduce that. You'll simply pay more and so will others. There will be no incentive for folks to work hard to afford it. They simply pass the cost on to someone else and spend their money elsewhere until freedom is gone altogether.
"People are dying out there for lack of coverage."
No they're not.
"Don't tell me that some single mother working at an entry level job can "afford" health insurance."
Where's daddy? Why is she single? Why wasn't she keen enough to catch on that she had pneumonia and could use the existing state of CA insurance?
Last person to complain to me about the lack of "single payer" was bitching about having to pay $75 out of her own pocket to treat the poison ivy she got herself into. She thought I should pay, because she didn't have any money. BS.
"With this plan, no one would be out of luck. everyone would be given the opportunity to have access to "affordable" health coverage."
Affordable? You're joking right? You're just advocating hiding the cost to benefit the politicians and those engaged in the healthcare monopoly.
I'm usually more sympathetic than the next guy, but this story sounds weird. Pnuemonia (sp) knocks you on your butt, and you feel like you are going to die (had it once). It does NOT feel like a cold. She should have gone ANYWHERE to get checked out. I'm not trying to be unkind, but the problem here wasn't that she wasn't insured, it's that she didn't seek medical attention at all. Kind of like Jim Henson.
My nephew had his tonsils out which involved a hospital stay, his parents were uninsured at the time. They applied for and got some type of assistance where they didn't pay A PENNY!
Helping the poor get medical attention is the job of the Church, not the government.
Her kids don't have insurance? I thought that ALL children get covered through the state- at least they do here in Ohio.
I think it's called CHIP.
Is health care a right or a privilege? If its a right, then it should be available in some sort of rational, cost effective manor. If its a privilege, then we have to accept that people who can not afford the privilege are going to die, and move on.
It's not a "privilege," it's a product. And the quality of the product depends on how much you have to spend.
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