Posted on 01/08/2007 1:42:34 PM PST by libertarianPA
SACRAMENTO, Calif. - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Monday proposed to extend health coverage to nearly all of California's 6.5 million uninsured people, promising to spread the cost among businesses, individuals, hospitals, doctors, insurers and government.
The plan contains elements that are likely to provoke opposition from a wide range of powerful interests, including doctors, hospitals and insurers, as well as employers and unions. But it also contains incentives for each of them.
All children, regardless of their immigration status, would be covered through an expansion of the state and federal Healthy Families program.
"I don't think it is a question or a debate if they ought to be covered. ... The federal courts have made that decision — that no one can be turned away," Schwarzenegger said. "The question really isn't to treat them or not to treat them. The question really is how can you treat them in the most cost-effective way."
Under Schwarzenegger's plan, all Californians would be required to have insurance, although the poorest would be subsidized. Businesses with 10 or more employees would have to offer insurance to their workers or pay 4 percent of their payroll into a state fund. Smaller businesses would be exempt.
Also, insurers would no longer be allowed to deny coverage to people because of their medical problems.
Business groups and Republican legislators are likely to object to the extra costs imposed on businesses.
The state would subsidize the estimated 1.2 million poor people who do not currently qualify for state health coverage. They would be able to buy insurance through a state-run pool and would have to make a small contribution toward their premiums.
Schwarzenegger is betting that his plan will save $10 billion a year by cutting health care costs. He says the savings would offset the new fees he is asking doctors and hospitals to pay — 4 percent of revenue for hospitals and 2 percent for doctors.
The state also would increase what it pays doctors and hospitals through Medi-Cal, the state insurance plan for the poor.
The governor was supposed to give his address in person to a panel of health care officials. Instead, he spoke via video link since he is still recuperating from broken leg suffered in a skiing accident.
Oh yea,
now every working still is going to have to pay through the nose for health care every useless bum in CA.The useless will flock there in droves. Bye Bye CA (Mexifornia )
"She didn't know. She thought she had a cold. She didn't go to urgent care because, first of all she couldn't afford to, and secondly, she had a job and thus unless she lied about that, they would have charged her full pop."
Years ago I was broke, with no health care, and I had what i thought was a bad flu, turns out it was pnuemonia and bronchitus. I went to the emergency room, got xrayed, got a prescription, and cured it in a week. Cost me $300, which I paid off in installments, and when i called the billing department, they discounted the bills significantly, because i had no insurance. The only thing I paid full for was the drugs, but I got generics, and they were $30 I think.
Not ONCE did they ask me if I had a job, the only thing they wanted to know was if I had insurance - and when i said I did'nt, they still treated me.
"She was more or less a minimum wage earner and had not worked long enough at her new job to "qualify" for the company health plan (something she would not have to do under the Schwartzenegger plan)."
I'm sure amongst the millions of Californians, you can find a few cases like this that pull at the heartstrings and seem to demand this plan, but we *also* have to look at ALL of the implications of this plan, and it's long-term cost. Yes, it's cold hearted, but you don't run down the valley with this flag, if doing so will utterly and completely bankrupt the state.
"She tried to treat this thing honestly by getting over the counter medication
and not going to the emergency room under an assumed name."
An assumed name is NOT required, and I would question why she felt she needed one - whoever put THAT idea in her mind should be ashamed if not outright jailed for helping to create such a horribly wrong picture of her options.
Hospitals will bend over backwards to allow you to pay for healthcare if you're sick, and in this case, paying off the bill over a few years made a lot more sense than dying and abandoning her children. That's heartbreaking that she was so scared of healthcare that she felt her course was the best case. I wish i could have known her, so she knew the reality of getting help, and it's not boogyman she seems to have been scared of - and I wish I knew the people who told her the worng things they did, because I'd like to deck them.
"But, even if she had gone to the doctor, and they discovered her pneumonia, that would not have solved her dilemma. If the doctors had caught it, it would have bankrupted her family because they would have had to hospitalize her for a couple of weeks."
Hospitalized for pneumonia? I've never heard of anyone hospitalized for that - I was sent home that day, the only concern they had was that I get a taxi or have someone pick me up. Bed space is extremely limited these days, I highly doubt they would admit her for *weeks* for phneumonia, when they don't even keep hip replacement cases that long.
"Instead she kept on working until the pneumonia got so bad her heart stopped."
I'm sorry she died. I truly am. But this is a case of her being poorly educated in her options, and the people around her who fostered her fear of seeking treatment should examine themselves and stop making people afraid of healthcare. I know of several doctors who take patients "on the side", for those without insurance, and will help those in need. My old dentist did the same, because she'd rather see people not have their teeth rot away than avoid treatment, and she heavily discounted for those without insurance.
"Maybe her family should be glad that she didn't burden them with a big hospital bill and instead was thoughtful enough to just drop dead and save everyone a lot of money."
Maybe you should stop making such a big guilt-trip in her name, hmm? This is a huge issue that will effect millions, could possibly bankrupt the state, and has far reaching implications that are *important* to be looked at seriously and in depth, and while her case is a tragedy, it's not enough to demand what Arnie is proposing. My heart goes out to the poor woman, but she died not because of lack or refusal of healthcare, but because she was mis-informed. The healthcare was there for her, all she needed to do was have a doctor look at her and possibily a chest x-ray, and then some medicine. She could have gotten ALL of that, but her FEAR kept her from it, and that's the real tragedy.
The people that told her she had to lie about having a job, or use a fake name, those people are the ones you can blame for her death.
working STIFF I MEANT
Yeah, the article about the study shows that out treatment for her would have been between $0 and $1500.
The study also showed what I've been telling Marlowe: "Patients requiring hospitalization were older and had more comorbid conditions."
"Generally I am tired of the excuses and lack of personal responsibilit..
She's dead. Ultimately she took responsibility and died without leaving her family with a $50,000 hospital bill. That should make you happy."
You really need to stop rubbing this in people's faces, it's rude, uncivilized and more than a little childish. The poor woman is dead, yes, stop parading her poor body around the town square, hmm?
As i pointed out before, it was her fear and lack of real knowledge of the healthcare system that led to her dying, not the healthcare system itself.
Yep, sadly I do.
"Common sense is not at all common. The fact is that if she had gone to the doctor, they would have had to hospitalize her and without insurance that burden would fall on you and me along with bankrupting her family. So I guess we should all rejoice that she didn't have common sense, since it obviously saved the taxpayers a bundle."
Now you're just being ridiculous and more than a bit of a fool. What was your relationship to her? Why are you rubbing her death in people's faces?
As for the rest, it is utterly untrue that getting treated for pnumonia would result in weeks of hospital bedcare and bankrupt *anyone*. This is NOT factual, yet you hang everything on it. Stop lying.
Whoever put it in her head that she would be in the hospital for weeks, and incur a debt large enough to require bankruptcy, needs to seek a priest and seek forgiveness, because they are responsible in part for this young woman's death.
When people talk to me about the gov. running our health care system I firs point out the months long waits for even the simplest tests in Canada and the UK to name two. I then ask them if they truly want the same group that runs our bankrupt an corrupt medicare system, the same group that runs our bankrupt social security system, the same group that runs FEMA, the same group that runs education in this country to be trusted with our health care? the Gov. is a terrible choice to run ANYTHING! They always make it worst. Who truly believes that letting them take over health care is going to make it better?
Do you have anything in your vast store of experience and opinions that would indicate that the middleclass counts for much of anything anymore? From a corporate and political point of view, they are spoiled at having a large voting block, then complain when they're unable to afford what they used to be able to afford.
Are there really any differences between the two major parties any more?
Doesn't 'sharing the cost' mean the same thing as redistributing wealth?
I'm usually more sympathetic than the next guy, but this story sounds weird. Pnuemonia (sp) knocks you on your butt, and you feel like you are going to die (had it once).
"I had pnuemonia and a 2 year old. Sometimes one doesn't have the privilige of being knocked on ones butt."
Absolutely not, but are you aware of ALL of the options available to you, in terms of healthcare and programs designed to assist you? Do you belong to a church? Do they offer assistance? I've helped friends in need, sometimes you gotta swallow some pride and ask for help. Maybe some time will be needed to fill out paperwork, or you need to sacrifice things like cable and clothes to pay, but there ARE options out there. Trust me, I've been flat broke without insurance, it's scary as hell, but when i found myself there, I started researching my options, and found I had a LOT at my disposal. Our country is RICH in the number of things people can turn to in times of need, and I'm tired of people badmouthing everything - we offer things that other countriues havent even DREAMED of, but no, we have to go with a stupid and idiotic plan like Arnie's which will destroy the state.
This story was not about any problems with healthcare and the need for universal care which will destroy this state, but about a young woman who was misled about what her options were. Period. It's a gross and pathetic guilt trip, and I resent it in the face of what he's using her death as a bludgeon to champion. I'm sorry she died, but maybe this can motivate some of you to help those less knowledgeable to find out what is REALLY out there when they need help, instead of fostering this idiotic idea that the state can do anything more than waste money and destroy what healthcare we already have, and drag the economy and state down with it's plans.
A LOT could be done to make office visits and such more affordable, without a bankrupting and destroying plan like Arnold's. I feel for single mom's, it's tough, but Arnie's plan is not what you truly want. Kaiser plans start at around $200 a month, for a woman with 2 kids, in Northern California. Kaiser sucks, but it's healthcare, and would have been all this woman needed to get a prescription to cure her. I'd rather see Arnie subsidize the Kaiser costs for legal citizens with our tax money, than throw it away on this plan, which will not only bankrupt the state, bankrupt hospitals, but will also swell the illegal population past the point of rupture.
I know the lack of healthcare is a personal issue, and you're only thinking of your kids, but sometimes you have to put that aside, and look at the long-term. Arnie's plan forbodes distaster, and there may not be a state for your kids left, by the time they grow older.
Do you have a point? If so, kindly state it.
Yes, but you are talking about individual centers of treatment not a healthcare "system". The treatment centers, which are often universities or connected to universities are the best in the world. American Universities are also the world's best.
But the American healthcare system is an overpriced piece of junk in comparison to the rest of the rich world.
Suffice it to say that in many sectors. WC has driven up the cost of services over 40 percent, yet you and other comrades like you continue to wail about how good it is, even while not pointing out that one does not even have to accept it. - and I do know exactly what WC does, as I've dealt with it every single day for many years, not just talked about it
- Well maybe we do but the risk is spread around because of the defined benefits and costs that are generally predictable.
Yes sir, from each according to his ability, indeed
You and Arnold and Hillary.
The employee does not have to deal with it at all if he or she so chooses. - They can fight it out in civil court where your great and wonderful 20% cap on theft does not apply. - but you are, like most places in Europe, guaranteed something.
WC is a bonanza for certain employers and any lawyer, because it shifts the burden to the consumer, who is easily duped into thinking that yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus and that this does not come right out of the the working mans pocket.
And the lies about 4 percent are just that. - Lies. What will your song be when 4 percent doesn't do it?
Or 5%?
Or 6%?
Or 7%? -See where this is going? You are going to drive businesses out, the prices of medical care way up, - the quality of care down and the average Joe out of your Socialist State.
Not once have you cited a successful system, you simply parrot WC as if it was a shining example of how great State intervention into private affairs is, and that, in fact, is disgusting.
What will you do to those proles who do not work and will not pay? - force them to work? Jail them?
As far as insurance and Medical care, well comrades, you might want to ask exactly when in American history that the rules of market pricings were skewed and these sectors climbed all out of proportion to free market fundamentals by forced government intervention to make things more fair, but that might mean wiping the Kool Aid off of your chin and doing some real research into what makes a great system instead of leaching off of one.
Its okay though. We in Florida do welcome those businesses fleeing from the cobalt blue into the warmth of the Red. - It happens every day here. - along with the Canadians filling up our waiting rooms.
In Fact, another - formerly Kalfornian biotech firm has just settled here in my area with several hundred very welcome new jobs, and a nice boost to the tax base.
As I wrote, it happens every day, but you keep up the delusion that the shrinking taxable population bases in your blue states are not happening because of the systems that you are currently using, and that the answer is more government regulation. Whats wrong with those proles, don't they know that more Government will solve everything?. - And please, do keep adding more regulations and Government intervention into the arena of private affairs.
- We want our electoral vote count officially increased to number three.
It makes us happy to hear the stories from your refugees, and I assure you, they are coming here in droves - and without your illusions as to the feasibility of Big Brother. - but Kali and most NE blues do have a large and growing amount of illegals, so take comfort in that example of Avogadro's Law.
thank you for your reply.
Ping to post 154
I was just answering him - he said it wasn't in the article.
The term, "blood from a stone," applies here.
Romney beat Ah-nold to Universal Healthcare by almost a year. Based on media reports, the new Mass plan is similar to the proposed CA plan. No one knows how much the Mass plan will cost yet, though.
Gosh, reading all your reply's I'd have to conclude that healthcare is currently affordable for everyone.
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