Posted on 01/03/2007 8:49:17 AM PST by kiriath_jearim
Anybody who's been keeping abreast of small arms and ammo develpments in the USSOCOM arena should already be aware fo the 6.8x43mm SPC a.k.a. "6.8mm Remington SPC (Special Purpose Cartridge)" cartridge concept. The 6.8x43mm Special Purpose Cartridge (SPC) was conceived and designed with the help of members of the U.S. Army 5th Special Forces Group as a much better answer for urban warfare and CQB (Close Quarters Battle) than the 62gr 5.56x45mm NATO round, and a much better short and intermediate distance sniping round than the 77 gr. 5.56mm round that's been utilized of late in the SPR (Special Purpose Rifle) by U.S. Spec-Ops personnel in the Middle East.
The 6.8x43mm SPC was designed for the M16 rifle/M4 Carbine (or SOPMOD CQB Subcarbine) weapons platform. All an operator needs to do in order to convert his M4 Carbine or SOPMOD CQB subcarbine is...
switch out his 5.56mm upper receiver and replace it with the 6.8x43mm SPC upper. It's interesting that Barrett Rifles is currently manufacturing 6.8x43mm upper receivers for the military (specifically for SOCOM end users). As far as DefRev is aware, this is Barrett's first foray into the AR-15/M16 platform weapons arena.
According to one of DefRev's sources (as of about 8 months ago--that's right, we sat on the info), the 6.8x43mm enjoys roughly the same trajectory as 7.62x51mm out to 600 yards. The 6.8x43mm round weighs 115gr. and has a velocity of 2750 to 2850 fps. It accomplishes all this through the use of a special propellant powder. By the way, you get all this performance with only a 2-round loss of magazine capacity. Not bad.
The same source also said (at that time) that Remington was set to produce 10 million rounds. 7 million will feature Hornady bullets, and 3 million will have a bonded bullet (not sure which manufacturer).
The following excerpts come from an interesting webpage, which is operated and maintained by Phil West:
"On 17th June 2003 I received an email from a Cris Murry: "This is a reply to the guess work all the supposed smart people are doing on the 6.8x43mm. It would appear that our operational security is working real well. But here are a few bits for you guys to chew on. Its not made from a .25 Rem. case, or reforming .223 brass, how do I know, I designed it. It has nearly the same flight path as the 7.62x51mm M80 ball round out to 650 meters. Delivers approx 4 times the energy on target at 300 meters compared to a SS109 round. The gel block tests are awesome. It drops a 150-300 lbs feral hogs like an axe, also works great on whitetails. My first choice was 7mm projectiles, but the users wanted something with a flatter trajectory, closer to the 5.56. Tested all calibers 6mm, 6.5mm, .25, 6.8 (.270 for Americans, oh actually the Chinese came up with the 6.8x63mm in the 1930s), didn't do much testing in .30, because it would only be an American M43 cartridge. This was not a private endeavourer nor a fully sanctioned government project, just users and a gun builder making a better product for our guys on the ground, in harms way." "
"Many thanks to Stan Crist for forwarding the following Press Release from Remington.
"The 6.8mm Remington SPC is an intermediate length rifle cartridge based on the 30 Remington case. Designed to function in M4/M16 type rifles, the 6.8mm Remington SPC was specifically developed to provide increased reliability, incapacitation, and accuracy not only at close quarters combat distance, but ranges out to 500 meters.
The 6.8mm Remington SPC, (Special Purpose Cartridge) will be offered in three versions for 2004, including Remington's new Premier® Match, line of ammunition. The 115 grain MatchKing® BTHP bullet will deliver a muzzle velocity of 2800 fps and 2002 ft-lbs of energy while providing low felt recoil and 1 MOA accuracy at 100 yards. The 6.8mm Remington SPC will also be available in both BTHP and Metal-Case 115 grain versions." "
DocGKR, a.k.a. Gary Roberts, a moderator from TacticalForums.com, started an informative thread on TF about the 6.8x43mm cartridge and Barrett "6.8mm Rem SPC" upper receiver. It contains a high res pic of the Barrett brochure for the 6.8mm Remington SPC upper. Just click on this link to read the thread. DefRev recommends it.
Just as an aside, DefRev's source recently stated that the 6.8x43mm round is going to prove to be an extremely impressive medium-size game hunting cartridge. This source has already used the 6.8x43mm SPC to drop some deer impressively quickly.
OOPS! Forgot the link.
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/remington_0303/
You forgot 7.62x63 (30-06).
Why reinvent the wheel? If the Russian 7.62 can knock a person down with one hit. Our 5.56mm is lighter to carry but it requires three rounds to knock an attacker down. the advantage of more rounds disappears quickly if you need three times the rounds to do the same as one heavier round. Why invent another round if the Russian 7.62mm is widely available in most third world hellholes??? If I were King for the Day I would modify current M-16 configuration to accept a larger mag to hold the Russian round and new uppers chambered to shoot the round. Otherwise take the AK-47, product improve the design and issue it to our troops in Iraq. I remember how bureacracies can kill victory. During World War II copies of Russian T-34 tanks were captured by the Germans during their advances into the Soviet Union in 1941. The T-34 had wide tracks that made it ideal in Russian mud and sloping armor that held up well against most of the German tanks (except for the PzIV). The only reason this superior tank was not fully exploited by the Russians were the poor handling and deployment of the excellent system. The German field commanders made their requests to the Nazi weapons' designers quite simple, copy design, paint it gray and put an Iron Cross on it. Instead the German bureacracy wanting to keep every manufacturer happy kept the old tank production lines running and took time to develop the PzV tank. The PzV tank was good against most Soviet tanks, but they were hard to mass produce and not as reliable as the T-34. In the end the delay caused by developing a new tank and not reducing the number of types of tanks in the field caused the Germans to be inefficient industrially and logistically. A factor that cost the Germans the war against Russian numbers.
"short...distance sniping"
Sounds like no-fat pizza.
I thought about 30-06. I left it out because there just aren't any modern semi-auto rifles in that caliber. Outside of the M1 Garand I can't think of any.
Great round but I'm stocking up on hi-cap semi-autos with removable magazines.
Counsel appreciated...
My scoped Remington 700 (30-06) is far more competent than I am, but out to several hundred yards I'm comfortable (and accurate) with it.
I was thinking that a Springfield Armory M-14 (.308) would be a good way to start the New Year!
I'm a big fan of 7.62x39. It's great fun to shoot and ammo is widely available. But it's an inherently inaccurate cartridge and doesn't stack up to the 6.8 performance wise. 6.8 performs midway between 7.62x51 and 7.62x39 and the real benefit occurs once you get past 100 yards. At 200 yards the little Russian round has about 800 foot ponds of energy while the 6.8 is slightly over 1300.
As for the three shots to go down issue, I think that can be attributed to the type of bullet currently in use by the military. The M855 62 grain bullet is an AP round and does not expand very much on impact. In short, it will pass through a target with minimal expansion. If the military would move away from steel core penetrator type projectiles and start issuing heavier (68 grain +) bullets that incorporate a more expansive design I believe you would find this issue to be greatly minimized. Of course, the trade off is performance against humans versus performance against vehicles and lightly armored positions. Ideally we would use the new sintered bullets or hollow points but the Geneva convention doesn't allow it.
There were several attempts to make 7.62x39 uppers for the M16. But, due to the straight wall mag well design of the M16 they could never get them to function with a high degree of reliability. To your point, I think the new FN SCAR, which is a modular system and will replace the M16, is designed to accept both 5.56 and 7.62x39 in the light rifle version.
If you want to go the M14 route I strongly suggest calling the guys at LRB arms. Springfield makes a good rifle but their rifles are built on a cast receivers with cast parts. LRB builds on forged receivers using milspec forged parts. Of course, it costs a little bit more but their rifles, as far as M14s go, are the best quality you can buy. I picked one up a couple of months ago and can't say enough good things about them. Plan on buying another very soon.
XM-8 is dead.
Looks like they are going with the FN-SCAR. Tough break for H&K.
The Russians disagree with you, which is why they replaced the 7.62 with a 5.56 cartridge twenty years ago. As an owner of a Ruger Mini-30 I have shot plenty of the old Com-Bloc round. It's a fine round for plugging away at short to medium range, but accuracy is never great. Expect 4" groups at 100 yards. The round's short bullet and slow speed gives it a rainbow trajectory and horrible ballistic co-efficient. At 300 yards and beyond, well it's a good thing the AK47 has a full auto function so you can spray and pray. The US wants a round that can have more stopping power, plus be viable for sniping out to 600 yards. The 7.62x39 ain't it.
Link came up dead for me but I assume you were directing me to a BAR. I'd love to have one but the repros are running 3k plus and weigh 20 pounds. A cool rifle nonetheless.
Really? I thought that U.S Special Forces was currently field testing it.
Do you have any links to this info? I am greatly interested.
I also like the SCAR, but I am a huge FAL (right arm of the free world) fan, so am somewhat biased.
I know the Army likes the M-249 SAW created by FN.
And after we spend hundreds of millions of dollars adopting this round, someone will come along and do a study that shows the 7.62NATO round is far superior than either the 5.56 varmint or 6.8 improved-varmint.
Government S.O.P., if it isn't broke, fix it till it is.
Thanks FRiend....found their website and bookmarked it.
I'll cruise there this evening!!
I believe the 6.8 would be great, but I believe the Army Logistics folks have killed it, buried it and danced on it's grave. I do not know the rounds fate concerning the SOCOM folks but assume it is the same. This really is a shame for the boots on the ground if you ask me.
A Colt Monitor is what you really want. And less than 20 pounds.
There is also a manufacturer that makes an AR type rifle in 30-06, it also takes BAR mags IIRC.
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