[mountn man]

God made a covenant with Israel. Lets call it the ultimate promise. Much like a marriage, but God made all the rules and the entire agreement. Gods view is that no matter what Israel does they are still his people, and that HE made a covenant with them. Today, we view covenants or promises or contracts things that can be broken, altered, or ignored as we see fit, whether the other has wronged us, or no longer is convenient for us.

But this is not Gods way. He made the covenant, and he will stick with it.

But it doesn't mean he doesn't discipline his people. Discipline is not the same as rejection.

As far as your point about the Jews railroading and crucifiing Jesus. They did nothing he didn't allow. Read the new testament and you'll see that he new all along his future. He new what their plans were for him before Judas left to betray him, and yet he told Judas to be quick about it. Instead of trying to flee, he goes to the garden and prays. Instead of running from the Jews, from what he knew was facing him, he prays. Prays so intently and so distraught he sweated dropds of blood.

He could have called a legion of angels to whisk him away (if he actually needed that) and they could have destroyed everyone.

But he didn't.

We consider the police and fire fighters who went into the WTC as heroes, because they knew what possibly awaited them, and yet they went anyway.

Is Jesus any less a hero for doing what he did, knowing what was ahead of him?

So was he murdered, or did he sacrifice himself?

The ancient Israelites and todays Jews are Gods chosen people. Not chosen for a free pass to heaven, but chosen to reveal God. Heaven or access to God is limited to faith. And faith alone. No matter your heritage. No matter your religion. No matter how many people pray for you. Heaven is only by faith in Jehovah God and his son, and what he did.

For a Christian to deny Israel's (Jews) position, means they are denying God's covenant with the Jews, and devalues God's covenant. Something God himself can't do.

That has an impact on Christians. Because if you have no consideration for Gods covenant with Israel (Jews), how can you have proper consideration for Gods covenant with Christians?

[gogogodzilla]

Good post. You explained it better than I every could.

[jagrmeister]

>Because if you have no consideration for Gods covenant with Israel (Jews), how can you have proper consideration for Gods covenant with Christians?

Thanks for your comments. Having read the bible, I'm still learning people's perspectives on these issues as are we all. I still have my doubts, but its an issue I'll look at more closely.