Posted on 01/01/2007 4:25:08 PM PST by yochanan
I recognize that there are two problems in this: one, we do not have a completely and "down to the letter" transmission of texts over the years, and two, there is the question of "what is it trying to SAY?" (as this discussion illustrates).
The first question is, of course, the core of the recent "inerrancy" debate and boils down to whether or not God has preserved his Word "substantively." I find the error of dispensationalism to be akin to those who insist that the Textus Receptus is the only TRUE stream of preserved text and that others represent attempts by the devil to adulterate the Word of God. It is nice, it is neat, it cleanly fixes a mess of textual problems....., but it simply won't stand up to scrutiny. If God can live with messy, unanswered questions, then so can I. Finally, solid rational categories is NOT nor has it ever been, the bulwark against personal or corporate apostacy. The problem with "liberalism" that both these groups seek to fix with neatly fixed arguments will never be solved simply by a proper confession (even if they had the proper confession). Life comes from the Spirit of God, and ONLY a revived church will remain orthodox.
Rather, American Fundamentalist Christianity finds the concept itself to be an affront to the proper interpretation of the Old Testament.
One God, One Message, One People, One Destiny. Two Testaments.
The photograph you posted is fascinating. A year or so ago, on a television program, a gentleman held up a satellite photo and the tops of the mountains read "Bethel" in Hebrew, as you show here. I have never been able to find any other mention of that until seeing your post. I printed your photo but would love to see if a better copy is available. Would you tell me where you got this information? It would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.vendyljones.org.il/whose_land_is_israel.htm
If you use html in the preview window and paste the url below in, it will show the picture...
http://www.vendyljones.org.il/whose_14.gif
Thank you very much. This is just wonderful to me. How can anyone not believe in God when they see this? It seems that every church would have their walls wallpapered with it. Of course, the ones in church usually already believe in God so I'll restate; the media should be broadcasting this everywhere. I wonder why they don't?
Thank you again.
I was just reading back through these discussions and came across yours. I agree completely. The present day nation of Israel and the Tribes of Israel are different entities. Once that is accepted His word becomes much easier to understand. I believe we live in the greatest of the nations described in Gen. 35:
Isn't it amazing how the Word of God opens up when you finally have this understanding of two nations, the House of Israel and the House of Judah. These are two seperate peoples, NOT ALL JEWS, two seperate destinies, and one final RESTORATION.
Please forgive my delay in responding to you. Sadly, my grandchildren left yesterday to get back to school in Texas after a 3 week Christmas vacation. I have more time now for a response (without a video game going on in the same room).
I am just beginning to find my way around a computer so I don't know what BUMP means and I don't know how to supply a link, other than to tell you, so here goes.
The 12 tribes separated after King Solomon's death into the House of Judah (which included the tribes of Levi and Benjamine) and the House of Israel, the 10 northern tribes. (This is not to be confused with the Nation of Israel which only became a nation in 1948). Only the tribe of Judah are properly called Jews while the others are Hebrew. All, of course, are Adamic. Only 3 kings, Saul, David and Solomon ruled over all Israel, in one united kingdom.
God scattered His children, because of the idolatry they practiced, the 10 tribes to Samaria and 200 years later, Judah to Babylon. References to the 2 houses throughout the Bible are very clear. Hosea declares that Israel is to be as "the sands for multitude" while Jeremiah tell us that Judah is "few in number" and a remnant. David, Micah, Jeremiah and others declare that Israel is the strongest war power on earth, never to be conquered by a Gentile power; and yet Jeremiah declares that Judah is "without might".
It is prophesied concerning Israel (the 10 tribes) that they shall obtain possession of "great possessions," inheriting and establishing the desolate places of the earth, rule many heathen nations, have a great revenue and become the "mart of nations," hold the keys of commerce, be "exalted above their neighbors," and become "the chief of nations."
When God made His covenant with Abraham, He said, "My covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.......And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee and kings shall come out of thee." (Gen.17:4-7)
And God said unto Isaac,"...I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed....."(Gen. 22:15-18)
And God said unto Jacob/Israel, "......I am the Lord God of Abraham, thy father, and the God of Isaac.....Thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed" (Gen. 28:13-14)
God again appeared before Jacob/Israel and said...."be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins." (Gen.35:11) In (Gen.24:60) He said they should "possess the gate of those which hate them."
God, speaking of Israel, said, "And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and my whole soul." (Jer.32:40-41. "For the Lord hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure." (Ps.135:4).
After dispersing the House of Israel God said, "I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord. For, lo, I will sift the house of Israel among the nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth." (Amos 9:8-9)
(Jacob, Israel, Ephraim "the largest of the tribes" and Samaria are all references to the House of Israel)
In the New Testament when Christ came to earth He declared, "I am not sent, but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel." (Matt.15:24) He came to "confirm the promises made unto the fathers." (Rom.15:8). Also, James wrote "to the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad". (James 1:1. In fulfilling God's plan they became "many nations" and a "company of nations" (the commonwealth of Great Britain) with colonies and daughter nations. America, possessing the "birthright marks" of Joseph, can be identified as modern Manasseh (the thirteenth tribe). However, it is today, peopled by a representation of all the other tribes of Israel.
The House of Israel, the 10 lost tribes, have faded away to many but not to God. One reason may be that it was His will and purpose to hide them. God could work unhindered with and in "Lost Israel" until He had finished His work and without them knowing they were the people of the Book until, "For I would not, brethern, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in." (Rom.11:25)
Once we realize that we are not Gentiles, that we are of the House of Israel, the above verse really takes on meaning. I believe it is time for that fullness now. Gentile means ethnos, ethnic nations. Almost all ethnic nations are in turmoil and hate Christian nations, especially the United States and Great Britain.
As we know God does not lie, does not break His covenant so then we know there is still a House of Israel. If we are not that House of Israel, where are they? Who else is as numerous as the sands of the sea and stars of the sky? What other nation is so blessed and shares those blessings with others? Why are we "One Nation Under God"? How could this country become what it is without God's intervention in such a short time?
I hope this answers the questions you have, at least some of them. Again, my apologies for taking so long to respond.
The United States and Britain in Prophecy
Judah's Scepter and Joseph's Birthwright
Missing Links discovered in Assyrian Tablets
The Bible
However, I see thousands of Believers now restless, bored, disappointed, or feeling betrayed by the obvious paganism that is being exposed as part of the church's teachings. These Believers are being led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness where He will guide them scripturally into these truths I have just written about.
"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." (Matthew 16:18)
Check the verse on :
1) Who builds it
2) Who owns it
3) Who wins
.....and get back to me
I have always thought, as you do, that the church was founded on Peter but after a certain study, changed my mind. I'll submit it here for your consideration.
Matthew 16:18 - "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter," (notice in the verse that it separates the following from the preceeding)
"and upon this rock I will build My church........"
Peter, Petra, does mean rock/stone but it is a movable stone.
The word "this", as used in "upon this rock", is very emphatic, as though pointing to Himself. It is one of three important passages where "this" stands for the speaker.
Jesus Himself is the Rock, the immovable Rock, the son of the Living God, who is the foretold "foundation stone" (Isa.28:16), and the rejected stone (Ps.118:22).
(King James - Companion Bible)
So, to me, the church is founded on Christ, He builds it and we are part of the many membered body and we win. I don't believe "church" means a building or a religion. We are the arms, legs, heart and soul of His body and together, We Win.
Dave,
If you look closer at the 144,000 you will see that only 12,000 are Jews. There are 12,000 Benjamites, 12,000 Asherites, 12,000 Gadites etc. This is where the church has misrepresented it's teachings. The church painted everything Jewish but it's not. Only the people from the tribe of Judah are Jews. It really changes scriptural understanding when you see this.
Does that mean when Jesus told his disciples that they were going to sit on seats of judgement over the 12 tribes in heaven that He wasn't being literal. Or in James 1:1 when James wrote to the 12 tribes scattered abroad, he wasn't really writing to the 12 tribes scattered abroad. Or that the New Jerusalem has 12 gates with the name of each tribe over each gate and no gate for the church that the church will not be able to get into the New Jerusalem?
Oh, year and what about the statement Jesus made, "I came ONLY for the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL" aka the ten lost tribes.
Way to much evidence on the 12 tribes to dismiss them as figurative.
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