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To: blue-duncan; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Gamecock; Alex Murphy
Warren's method of silencing critics is suspect. Small group ministries can be used for edification and spiritual growth. But they can also be a perfect set-up to get everyone on board the ecumenicism train to universalism, U.S.A.

The real problem with Warren are the doctrines within his methods -- or more accurately, the lack of them.

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry." -- 2 Timothy 4:2-5


794 posted on 01/02/2007 1:34:27 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
The real problem with Warren are the doctrines within his methods -- or more accurately, the lack of them.

Amen!

797 posted on 01/02/2007 2:04:07 PM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Gamecock; Alex Murphy
"The real problem with Warren"

See, that's the problem. You see Warren and not the method. What is our "purpose" in life? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Now how do you do that? Each church has its own "method". It just so happens that Warren has come up with a method that seems to work in some churches. Now it is abused by some and it is forced on some churches, but that is not Warren's fault, it is the individual churches' fault whether their method of government is congregational, presbyterian or hierarchical. If churches are too lazy to choose their own educational materials and want to buy the theology lite Saddleback material, that's their choice, but it does not affect the the usefulness of the method.

Every church has a small group that controls what goes on in a church. Usually the group governs by default because no one else wants to be really active. There is always a core that keeps the church running and they "politic" to make their vision acceptable. When someone is drastically opposed to the vision of the leadership usually that is a sign that it is time to move on if they can't go along with the vision that the elected leadership believes that the Lord has led them to.

Warren is not the fault of the problems in the churches; the churches are for electing the wrong leadership or being to lazy to study the method before accepting it, or too lazy to marshal the members to oppose it, or to lazy to make it work. The materials that Saddleback produces are Saddleback's problem, not the local churches'. Warren was not elected to represent us and he has just as much right to speak about his ministries and be held accountable for them as Kennedy, Dobson, Sproul or even Hinn. What they say does not affect the ministry of the local church since the ministry of the local church is local and dependent on the obedience of the members of the local church to be agents of reconciliation to their neighbors, family and friends. It is word of local mouth that brings the unsaved to Christ in the local church, not Warren on Larry King.
809 posted on 01/02/2007 6:10:36 PM PST by blue-duncan
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