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To: Just another Joe

Then please correct me in terms I can understand.
I take instruction well and will not turn down constructive criticism.

Fair enough.

Without strangling you in reams of verses, I'll simply point out that "square one" -- the foundation upon which the "The house of God is for those who haven't found God yet" doctrine fails -- is that "The Church" IS -- by definition -- the believers, i.e., "The Body of Christ."

No one can be "grafted into the body", as it were, if he is in a state of unbelief, unsaved, whatever terminology you like.

What it boils down to is that the "new gospel" is one of "fellowhip with unbelievers", which is heresy, period, full stop, end of discussion.

It's great for the budget, though -- and for purposes of proving "correctness via size." Sheer marketing genius -- and we have the likes of Schumpeter and Drucker to thank for it (for which Warren makes no apologies.)

769 posted on 01/02/2007 12:27:33 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Just another Joe
I'll expand on that (#769) by saying that of course I'm not saying that unbelievers should not be "invited to church" -- I'm simply saying that you can't mix oil and water, unbelievers and believers.

Or to put it on other terms -- more descriptive, while running the risk that they might be MISinterpreted -- when you mix dirty water and clean water, you end up with dirty water.

(And if that's too coarse for anyone, then let's go straight to the source, i.e., "a little leaven leavens the lump.")

It's one thing to "invite unbelievers to church" -- it's something entirely -- entirely different -- to embrace them as integral members of the fellowship. And that, from what I can ascertain, is part of what's going on.

Again, it makes great marketing-sense -- but it ain't "church".

772 posted on 01/02/2007 12:35:27 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Don Joe
"The Church" IS -- by definition -- the believers, i.e., "The Body of Christ."

I agree. I am describing (bad word but I can't come up with another term off the top of my head) the house of God, a church, as a physical building.
In that sense the church is where one typically comes to hear the word of God, the scripture, from a pastor, or priest, or evangelist.
If the unbeliever is not welcomed into the physical structure, where else are they likely to hear the word of God?

Who needs the word of God more, the saved or the unsaved?

773 posted on 01/02/2007 12:39:14 PM PST by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Don Joe
What it boils down to is that the "new gospel" is one of "fellowship with unbelievers", which is heresy, period, full stop, end of discussion.

That would make Jesus an heretic. He fellowshiped with unbelievers all the time. So do I including inviting and driving them to my church with the "purpose" [there is that nasty word again] of them coming to Christ. You know what, it works!

791 posted on 01/02/2007 1:16:39 PM PST by free_life
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