[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

It's interesting that the "number of man" (666) thing is actually written as six hundred three score and six in the King James, which if parsed out is 600 20 20 20 6, or 6,002,020,206 (6 billion plus ). We passed this number about 6 years ago. A little fun with numerology, which was a popular pastime centuries ago. Especially concerning riddles. Think somebody back then may have been a mathematician?

Yes. The Apostle John, for one.

Revelation 13:18 (KJV) actually states:

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The Apostle John was referring to a specific Man, "the Number a A Man", not "the Number of Man". The following is from Dr. Noam D. Elkies, Professor of Mathematics at Harvard University:

In fact we probably do know just what wisdom the author of Revelations intended to convey with that number. Yes, it's Roman, and it's numerals, but the numerals aren't Roman. The Roman is the emperor Nero; the numerals are letters of the Hebrew alphabet. Each letter has a numerical value: Aleph is 1, Beth is 2, and so on until 10, then count by tens till 100, then by hundreds till we run out of letters. Nero Caesar in Hebrew is NeRON QeiSaR; adding up the letters we get ``the number of the man'', 666.... But the really suggestive hint is that the oldest manuscripts don't agree on the number: some have 616 instead. It's much harder to concoct an explanation that fits both numbers, and only one of the proposed interpretations of the Number of the Beast accounts for both: Nero. Remember it was NeRON QeiSaR in Hebrew. But the final N of NeRON is optional: the name can also be rendered NeRO, subtracting the letter N [Nun] and its value of 50 to get -- 616.
~~ (http://www.math.harvard.edu/~elkies/mp666.html)

The Apostle John specifically said, in Revelation 1:1, that he was warning the Faithful of his day and time about a great Tribulation which must "SHORTLY" take place, not some imaginary "Left Behind" Apocalyptic balderdash 2,000 years hence.

And, indeed, the Bible is yet again proven to be the very Word of God in the near-term fulfillment of John's very Prophecies, in that very generation:

Revelation 16: 17-18 -- And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great.

Josephus, the Jewish Wars -- Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence".

Revelation 16:19-20 -- And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Josephus, The Jewish Wars -- And now there were three treacherous factions in the city, the one parted from the other... Accordingly, it so came to pass, that all the places that were about the temple were burnt down, and were become an intermediate desert space, ready for fighting on both sides of it; and that almost all that corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years. So they were taken by the means of the famine, which it was impossible they should have been, unless they had thus prepared the way for it by this procedure.

Revelation 16: 21 -- And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, [every stone] about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Josephus, The Jewish Wars -- The engines, that all the legions had ready prepared for them, were admirably contrived; but still more extraordinary ones belonged to the Tenth Legion: those that threw darts and those that threw stones were more forcible and larger than the rest, by which they not only repelled the excursions of the Jews, but drove those away that were upon the walls also. Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness; accordingly the watchmen that sat upon the towers gave them notice when the engine was let go, and the stone came from it, and cried out aloud, in their own country language, "THE SON COMETH!"

Most of Revelation concerns Prophecy which, in the Author's own words, must SHORTLY take place, in that day and age -- and were, indeed, 100% fulfilled, in that day and age.

The Book was certainly NEVER intended by Apostle Saint John as a justification for hyper-apocalyptic chicken-Christians living 2,000 years later to invent Malthusian faux-overpopulation excuses to let the Moslems inherit the Earth.

---

Good to see you 'round, L.

Best Regards, and Merry Christmas. OP

[Gunny Gene]

The Book was certainly NEVER intended by Apostle Saint John as a justification for hyper-apocalyptic chicken-Christians living 2,000 years later to invent Malthusian faux-overpopulation excuses to let the Moslems inherit the Earth.

I'm mildly familiar with a number of competing views, etc. regarding Revelation ( and other books of the Bible, and those of competing religions for that matter, including the Gnostic texts ). Which is why I included the "fun with numerology" statement. I apologize if my attempt at humor was ill-conceived. :) Thanks for the detail, and Merry Christmas :) .

[RightOnTheLeftCoast]

Fascinating; thank you for an interesting post. But, well... in my experience there's much prophecy of relevance to recent history and, indeed, future history in the Bible.

For example, tell me what you flash on with these two verses:

Revelation 15:2: And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and over the number of his name.

Revelation 20:4: I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.

[Forgiven_Sinner]

Thank you for your explanation of Revelation. I have been re-studying it lately for our small group will study this book this coming year.

Your explanation fits with the "Preterist" school of interpretation--that the book was fulfilled in the first century, by the fall of Jerusalem.

Certainly, from Jesus explanation in Matthew 24, some things were to come to pass in the lives of those hearing His words.

However, John almost certainly wrote the book of Revelation in the 90's AD. This is attested to by Justin Martyr, who was a student of Polycarp, who was a student of John, who wrote the book.

John himself was the bishop of Ephesus until he was seized and exiled to Patmos, where he received and wrote the book of Revelation.

I think a more reasonable explanation is that the book encompasses the first century of the Church through the present day and into the future. This is a more historic interpretation of the book.

Given time, we both will know the truth of the matter.

[xjcsa]

Preterist bump...