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New York Village Would Rather Remove 9-Foot Menorah than Allow Nativity Scene
Life Site News ^
| 12.19.06
| JORGE FITZ-GIBBON
Posted on 12/20/2006 4:54:27 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus
The thread is not about pine trees.
81
posted on
12/20/2006 5:58:57 PM PST
by
muawiyah
To: dr_who_2
...or creche (French word meaning the following---->)
82
posted on
12/20/2006 5:59:31 PM PST
by
familyop
("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
To: SJackson; packrat35
This is stupid. How does suing get you want you want in this situation. It doesn't. Just pisses off people and they take everything down which makes even more people upset. Get's you in the paper too.
And it gets the public to discuss the issue.
And it got a Court somewhere to admit that the Free Exercise Clause of the Constitution means that religious symbols ARE allowed in the public square as long as no religion is discriminated against.
Up until now, we have had Courts establishing secularism as the official state religion and arbitrarily deciding that Menorahs are secular symbols (wink, wink) and allowable but crosses and creches are religious symbols and prohibited. The arbitrary unfairness of such rulings only serves to stir up resentments and fights every December.
Past dumb legal precedent is not engraved in stone. New legal decisions can change it but only if the issue is addressed in Court.
![](http://www.menorahcoinproject.org/images/H485/Menorah_on_the_reliefs_of_the_Arch_of_Titus_in_Rome.jpg)
Roman Legionnaires removing a secular symbol from the Second Temple
83
posted on
12/20/2006 5:59:46 PM PST
by
Polybius
To: Senormechanico; Bloody Sam Roberts; gidget7; Dov in Houston
And thank you all, as well. My spell-checking is rotten tonight, but I'm truly upset over this growing insanity, and just happy to get the message out there, even imperfectly. We are approaching a turning point, I believe, in these times. People of faith are sick and tired of being treated as second-class citizens in a nation that
we founded. The United States was never intended to be a secular republic, but a secular government led by religious people whose various faiths might be expressed freely in the public sphere as long as our elected government did not act to favor one faith over another. The perversion of this ideal has led to the rise of a tyranny of perpetually aggrieved minorities who have used the naked power of government to relegate all religious expressions (except for Islam, it seems) to the small corners of life.
To: Polybius
And it got a Court somewhere to admit that the Free Exercise Clause of the Constitution means that religious symbols ARE allowed in the public square as long as no religion is discriminated against....Past dumb legal precedent is not engraved in stone. New legal decisions can change it but only if the issue is addressed in Court. That's true, but this is such old stuff, decades old.
If you put up a Menorah, you better put up a Creche if requested. Nothing new about that, the courts have dealt with it, which is why in each of these instances the "authorities" remove a display, their only option to prohibiting one. That Menorahs are primarily secular symbols, imo indefensible, is disproved by the actions of the autorities involved.
85
posted on
12/20/2006 6:04:10 PM PST
by
SJackson
(had to move the national debate from whether to stay the course to how do we start down the path out)
To: Clemenza
Larchmont, But that's where Hugh Victor Thompson III resided. He was supposed to address the Rotary Club of Larchmont, but was delayed while trapped in a Queens elevator with one Archie Bunker and other diverse characters.
One of the very best "All In The Family" episodes ever.
86
posted on
12/20/2006 6:06:35 PM PST
by
buccaneer81
(Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
To: SJackson
"Though I suppose it's none of my business, those are the kinds I'd hate to see. And perhaps the price of public displays. As I've occasionally noted, personally, I'm fine with observance, including displays, at home, or at Synagogue or Church, or on private property. Avoids the appearance of a Holiday Arguement Season. But it's not up to me, and they should be allowed in the public square. All of them, which includes the Crescent and the KKK when they can convince a judge they're a religion."
I agree! And yes, I do use a bit of a sardonic sense of humor to ridicule public attempts from people (who are otherwise very secular) to rouse occasionally religious mobs against others. Such "opinion" journalists do so mostly for their sponsors, IMO!
87
posted on
12/20/2006 6:07:15 PM PST
by
familyop
("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
To: buccaneer81
Played by the great Roscoe Lee Brown. The Puerto Rican couple trapped in the elevator with them included another great character actor, Hector Elizondo.
88
posted on
12/20/2006 6:08:38 PM PST
by
Clemenza
(Never Trust Anyone With a Latin Tagline)
To: muawiyah
I knew you didn't have an answer... please, stop making a fool of yourself.
89
posted on
12/20/2006 6:11:25 PM PST
by
Coleus
(Christmas is part of our Western Civilization and is an U.S. Holiday for all Americans)
To: familyop
nice try...
now try again.
90
posted on
12/20/2006 6:13:47 PM PST
by
Coleus
(Christmas is part of our Western Civilization and is an U.S. Holiday for all Americans)
To: andy58-in-nh
Well, don't be upset. This is mainly in the ACLU, and politicians who cow tow to them. All it takes is one Newdow type person to get those very people riled. I refuse to let them ruin my Christmas or my faith and pride in it!
91
posted on
12/20/2006 6:14:04 PM PST
by
gidget7
(2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:)
To: familyop
92
posted on
12/20/2006 6:14:57 PM PST
by
dr_who_2
To: Clemenza
You mean there are actually Gentiles in Briarcliff Manor? ;-)One at least: Mrs. Vincent Astor lives there. At least I think she does--is she still alive? Maybe you're right, she's dead, and there really aren't any gentiles in Briarcliff.
93
posted on
12/20/2006 6:15:03 PM PST
by
Fairview
To: SJackson
"All of them, which includes the Crescent and the KKK when they can convince a judge they're a religion."
Their offspring could display burning crescents! What a festive addition to the holidays that would be!
94
posted on
12/20/2006 6:16:12 PM PST
by
familyop
("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
To: familyop
I thought everybody knew that a "creche" is the sound a menorah makes when it falls off the table . . .
95
posted on
12/20/2006 6:16:29 PM PST
by
AnAmericanMother
((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
To: Dov in Houston
Thank you, Dov
And Happy Hanukkah!!
96
posted on
12/20/2006 6:16:49 PM PST
by
gidget7
(2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:)
To: Coleus
I couldn't give a flip if it was a nativity scene dropped in a barrel of urine. It's still a stupid thing to get into a lawsuit over.
97
posted on
12/20/2006 6:18:46 PM PST
by
dr_who_2
To: taxesareforever
According to the Supreme Court, a menorah is not a religious symbol.
Nine judges so ruled.
Now we know the true derivation of the word "assiNINE".
PS There is a valid question of whether a menorah which is not candle, gas, oil, or some other falme operated is a religious symbol. The Orthodox hold it isn't. The Assi-nine may have bassed their decision on some derivation of thsi. Who knows? Who cares?
98
posted on
12/20/2006 6:19:54 PM PST
by
GladesGuru
(In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principles, - -)
To: Chickensoup
No. They shouldnt have a menorah. The equivelant Jewish symbol to a Christmas tree is a dreidel. 1. Why not have both? The Founders intended more religion, not less.
2. No Federal judge has any jurisdiction over a State or local matter involving religion. The 1st Amendment gives the Federal courts jurisdiction only over acts of Congress regarding religion. The 10th Amendment forbids Federal involvement in State or local concerns outside of that Congressional context.
To: gidget7
1. We actually take pride in where we live.
2. We actually have zoning laws to keep the trash out.
3. It works for us.
4. Say what you want about the names of the towns up here, but it beats living in Intercourse, Blue Ball, Boogerville, or even Newport News.
--- Clemenza, Hamlet of Lawrenceville (Formerly Maidenhead), Township of Lawrence, founded 1697. ;-)
100
posted on
12/20/2006 6:20:37 PM PST
by
Clemenza
(Never Trust Anyone With a Latin Tagline)
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