Warsaw is questioning the German-Polish treaty concerning the border between both countries.

Der Spiegel ^ | 19. Dezember 2006 | asc/hen/AFP/dpa

[Atlantic Bridge]

Short summary of a Spiegel article:

After a private organisation of expelled persons who had to leave former eastern Germany in 1945 started a lawsuit against Poland for compensation, the Polish foreign minister, Mrs. Anna Fotyga said that Poland want to negotiate the treaty concerning the boarder. She obviously is backed by the Polish Prime minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski. Mr. Kaczynski said, that in Germany there is absolute stubbornness about to take on the liability of such lawsuits against Poland.

The full article is in German. You can read it if you follow the link.

[Atlantic Bridge]

And there is not a single word about any ideas to question the border treaty.

It would be completely moronic to do the neo-nazis this favour.

Well, Andreas, it looks like some kind of nonsense. Here you have a full text of the official statement of the Polish MFA relating to this issue (unfortunately in Polish only).

Due to the failure of the German educational system to convey all languages of our neighbours to our pupils I was never taught any Polish, although I would have been really very interested in learning it if there would have been the possibility to do so. One of the things that should be changed soon in our common interest. Maybe it will be easier for my kids to learn your language. To talk to you I have to take a detour by using English. Anyway I can not read this text.

This is what "DER SPIEGEL" wrote:

Auch Polens Außenministerin Anna Fotyga reagierte auf die Aktion der Preußischen Treuhahand. Ereignisse wie deren Klage müssten "sehr klare Reaktionen" folgen, sagte Fotyga dem öffentlichen Rundfunksender Trojka. "Wir werden auf diese Weise reagieren." Auf die Frage, ob damit eine Neuverhandlung des deutsch-polnischen Grenzvertrages von 1990 gemeint sein könnte, sagte Fotyga nach Angaben mehrere deutscher und polnischer Agenturen: "Ja, das ist genau das."

My translation:

The foreign minister of Poland, Anna Fotyga reacted on the action of the Prussian trust. On occurrences like their lawsuit must follow "very clear reactions" said Fotvga to the public TV-station Trojka. "We will react in this way". On the question if that means a new negotiation of the German-Polish treaty concerning the common border said Fotyga on reports of several German and Polish (news)agencies: "Yes, that is exactly that."

It would be very interesting to find out if this TV-station has something according on its homepage. I would do so, but due to my incapacity in Polish I am simply unable .

I do not trust into "Der Spiegel" either, but I doubt that they provoke such a canard without any need. This would be more than just the failure of a bad journalist. Although they belong to the MSM-media they have a good reputation for their accuracy and after the "potato"-scandal German tabloids and newspapers are for sure more careful about their coverage on the Polish administration.

[MARKUSPRIME]

I thank you guys for helping the US. We will be there for you in the future.

[wolf78]

Oh, I nearly forgot. This is also one of the things the Polish leaders and people are strongly criticized for in the EU ruling circles - staunch and faithful alliance with the USA.

Yeah, the likes of Tony Blair were furious because of that alliance..... yawn.

Right exactly today, the Polish parliament approved yet another year of presence for our troops in Iraq.

And what should be so special about that compared to other EU nations? Germany sent more troops to Afghanistan etc.

Looks like tomorrow the leftist EU press will surely grind us down for this.

Funny coming from a staunch supporter of a (national) socialist government.

But then again who cares what the French and Germans think of us.

For example: YOU. You devote half your life to what the Germans think of you.

[Atlantic Bridge]

To make a few things clear:

1. To me Poland does not have to pay any reparations to Germany. It is the other way around.

2. I dismiss such organisations like the "Preussische Treuhand". Even their existance is a offense. Nevertheless a democracy has to tolerate them because of the freedom of expression. Just like Germany must tolerate nazi scum of the NPD or Poland has to tolerate the communist party.

3. The guilt of war is doubtless on the German side. The German administration and its former Reichskanzler Adolf Hitler started the invasion of Poland in 1939 without any need. They killed 20% of the Poles without any need. Apart of this they are the source of nameless crimes. Therefore they are those who have the main responsibility for the incidents that followed out of their crimes. Contemporary Germany as the legal successor has to settle the claims of victims.

4. Expelled German persons got generous compensation trough the German "Lastenausgleich" law between 1950 and 1980. Most of them were able to build their own houses from the money out of that help.

5. I do not see any reason to compensate them a second time. Therefore all according lawsuits (no matter if they concern Poland or Germany) are completely ridicolous.

Human live is priceless and there's no such amount of money I could demand for the murdered members of my family? Briefly, the appraisal of human lives is immoral. How many Euros for a granddad's brother? How much would be her wife and daughter? etc.etc. I believe in God. I KNOW He is somewhere out there and one day he will perform his Last Judgment. He is the Vengeance, he will repay both to victims and their oppressors.

Of course nobody can give you any compensation for the murdered members of your family. Nevertheless we Germans tried to ease some of our worst crimes. I.e. The construction of Israel was at large parts financed by German reparations during the 50ties and 60ties. This money helped to rebuildt trust between both countries. Today Germany is the only real friend of Israel in western Europe (ask the French or the Brits about their real feelings concerning the jews) and we still try to help in all matters. I.e. Israel got recently its 2nd nuclear-strike-abillity trough the partly donated German Dolphin-submarines. Due to its small size and its limited economic abillities Israel would not be able to defend itself without such help (also from the US of course).

All that I can say is that I am terribly sorry for the injustice that happend to your family through German forces in WWII. It can not be reversed and although I also believe that the opressors face the justice of God I would have prefered to give them some justice in this live. It was one of the fundamental failures of post-war Germany that those criminals were never punished.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Dont worry fellas. We got your back. The only way the germans could become a military power again is lose their sovereignty(the EU is weak) to a russian alliance. Then they would quickly become enemies of the US.

I am deeply impressed about this great amount of solidarity. Anyway if you look into the younger history I would be careful with such big promises.

The last time your staunch Polish allies were betrayed in a fundamental way after they fought to their bones on the side of America, was in a weird town named Yalta somewhere far far away. The picture above is showing the two men that sold Poland to Stalin and the Soviet Union. If you take your history book you may recognize them. A small hint in this brain-teaser: They are NOT Swiss, Italian, German or French.

Have fun in solving this complicated mystery.

[Atlantic Bridge]

However, US commanders such as George Patton wanted to go further and further until all nations under the communist yoke would be liberated.

Yes. Some did. It is indeed a interesting point. My own German gouvernment dismissed the war in Iraq because there was no proof that they had WMDs in a relevant quantitiy. I share their view that Iraq was no danger to the west after 1992, but I have to say that the spread of freedom would have been a goal worth to join into the "coalition of the willing" for us Germans. It is indeed a problem of German politics that nobody understood that freedom has its price. This is different with you Poles and I look up to your sacrifice that you are bringing for the freedom of others.

Your granddad faced a horrible time. I understand each family father (I have a wife and kids by myself) that he has to come home after years of fighting. The own family is for sure more worth than anything else. The betrayal of his own people (communists but also Poles) who kidnapped and tortured him must have been the most sick experience we can think of.

[Grzegorz 246]

Great, but what that have to do with this thread ?

[Schweinhund]

I AM SO TIRED OF THIS BULLSHIT.

Sorry, Poland. Germany needs to do something against these bastards. I wish there was a way to finally settle this by law. Maybe I should start an initiative. I am nearly pissed off enough.

[RightWhale]

The 300 some separate German states, cities, and freeknights did not encompass all German speaking regions. Depends where the line is drawn and we say 'Germany starts at this time.' When is it? 1754? 1817? 1871? This stuff is very complicated and hardly ever had a moment of resolved stability in the past 250 years.

[lizol]

Polish foreign minister denies Warsaw wants to renegotiate 1990 border treaty with Germany

[bobjam]

Not to mention the fact that Poland's borders are not exactly a shining example of consistency. They have shifted all over in the last 300 years- even disappearing altogether.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Probably to our common contentment the Polish foreign minister, Mrs. Anna Fotyga denied that Poland wants to renegotiate the treaty concerning the boarder. Everthing else would have been completely moronic.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1756360/posts

Nevertheless it is quite obvious that she said something different in her first anger about the "Preussische Treuhand" lawsuit. The emotions are cooking high in Poland because of a few idiotic lunatics among the expelled who can not be stopped in their actions because they can rely on their constitutional rights such as the "freedom of opinion" or their right on lawsuits.

Personally I believe that the Polish administration would be well advised not to take those things too serious, although I understand that it is the most sensitive and delicate issue we can think of. There are a few reasons why those lawsuits have no chance to be sucessfull:

1. The expelled already got generous compensation through Germany. It is not common to pay twice.

2. The political pressure (also from the German side) from all European nations to shoot this lawsuit down is immense. Although judges theoretically should be independent we all know that this is not the case here.

3. Since the German expulsion is the outcome of a war that was started by Germany and the Polish themselves were expelled from eastern Poland, the lawsuit has no logical basement.

I understand that Poland does not want to be in accountability for this. Nevertheless if Germany would declare its accontability it would also accept that the expelled have a right in second compensation. This can not be in the common Polish and German interest either and does not make any sense. Therefore it is the best to wait until lawsuit of the "Preussische Treuhand" is beaten down.

[wolf78]

Step back with those demands as the Polish people is at the edge. We'll stand no more german provocations.

Yeah, so could you just please try and invade Germany, so we're even and can get over with all this unpleasantness... yawn.

If you want to initiate mass violent protests on the Polish streets, keep doing this way.

So it's you, your wife/'live partner' and who else...?