Posted on 12/18/2006 5:59:04 AM PST by Tolik
Remember how long it took them to form a government? They were trying to reconcile the unreconcilable. What is it they say about an animal created by a committee?
Our problem is more about a lack of resolve in facing and standing up to our anything than it is with the character of the Iraqi people. I rather imagine plenty of them like us and would have liked to see us succeed, but at this point they'd be foolish to bet their lives on us.
We don't have any clear alternatives now. As we are attacked again and again and again options which are off the table now will recover their viability. Let's just hope the number of casualties doesn't climb into the seven figures.
This is quite frightening.
"We're not holding on to anything. The only thing we're holding on to is the enemy. We're gonna hold him by the nose and kick him in the ass. We're gonna go through him like crap through a goose... like sh!te through a tin horn!"
apogee.... what a pussy.
Thanks for the excellent article.
I don't recall this objective going into Iraq: "The second [objective] was to try to establish a self-sustaining, democratic successor government."
I remember this occurring after we had military victory. To find support for his attack of Iraq Bush focused on weapons of mass destruction and their part in 9/11. There was no rallying around bringing democracy to the Middle East at that point. Thus, I believe this part of Krauthammer's analysis is wrong, and it is at this point that his essay spins out of control along with Bush's attempt at democracy in a world that does not want it.
There were only two choices at that time: set up a friendly dictator that could keep 3 different enthnic groups under control (i.e. put in another Sunni but do away with Saddam and his close relatives), or partition the country. It appears this attempt at bringing democracy will result in the Iraqi's bringing about this option -- without any of our safeguards installed.
Applause!
L -- dittos to your thoughts on the article and our alternatives as you stated them. However, both you and Dr. Krauthammer left one thing unstated and that was to fail in Iraq (and withdrawal is failure - we shouldn't kid ourselves on that) is to set in motion the eventual attacks in America. Actually, it seems you didn't so much leave it unstated as simply a fact that should be understood and accepted.
EPWR -- your Patton comment was absolutely on point.
All -- generally, doesn't this whole matter really stem from the post-WW One beginnings of Iraq as a nation when tribalism and sectarianism were simply ignored in order to draw some lines on the map? Seems to me what we are advocating is to roll the clock back so these realities are part of the solution.
A concise and spendid evaluation of our current situation. The war is not lost, Islamofascism can and must be defeated.
Permitting sharia was a major mistake on our part, but again, I don't think we understood Islam very well when we started on this. Islam is theocratic; that is, it is not only government by the clergy, but government by religious law, where the religious law and the civil law are one and the same.
We were probably understanding it in the sense of an established church, like the Anglican church in England, which does not govern in any way and in fact is governed by the state or state-chosen persons. Islam has never viewed it this way, and we made a major error in thinking it did.
vs.
2. I think we should completely wipe them out, because that's the only way we will survive.
Krauthammer mentions #2 but then settles for the politically correct #1. I think you can only achieve #1 (change in culture) by first using #2 (annihilation) against all cities and towns where the insurgency is and the people in the other towns and cities will quickly embrace #1.
its essence...
Not quite.
Krauthammer, as usual, makes very good points and reasoned arguments. However, he tiptoes around and glosses over the single biggest factor in the loss of the "unipolar moment" and the chance for a lasting Pax Americana.
The "cultural factor" which has contributed most to our undoing is the pervasive culture of institutionalized treason and mindless pursuit of power and partisan advantage which has consumed our so-called "governing classes".
The deliberate, calculated evil of the decision of segments of our political establishment and their various allies such as the MSM, that the goal of regaining their own power mattered above all else, even if it meant sabotaging and betraying their own country, its duly elected leadership and even its military personnel in harms way, is what has brought us to this sorry pass.
The Iranians, the Syrians, and whichever others who wished could have indulged in their machinations and dreams of hegemony, but if the so-called "loyal opposition" factions in this country had joined with us and simply honored the tradition that "politics stops at the waters edge" in the face of foreign enemies, we would still be in Krauthammer's unipolar moment.
I agree entirely that we have to stay in Iraq and win in Iraq. I think, unfortunately, that we are all just beginning to realize the stakes - and the players - in this game.
I don't think we should get involved in inter-Muslim or inter-ethnic disputes, but unfortunately at the beginning, we were following the British/French model of picking a Muslim group that we perceived to be more favorable to our interests. This meant that, since the Baathists were Sunnis, we naively thought that the Shias would be our friends. Big mistake.
We have to regard Islam as a whole, because even when they are killing each other, they regard it as a whole vis a vis the infidel. There are certainly good people among them and certainly those who probably do not want us dead and wish that the whole thing would just go away. But unless we are ruthless in putting down their aggressive pretensions, even the "good" Muslims,that is, the non-violent ones, are going to suffer from the insane death cult of which they are members. We are doing no favors to the moderates by tolerating the others.
You are most likely correct. Official Washington is rather dumb about religion in general. Everyone needs to be shown closeups of FGM and women being stoned to death for adultery to understand primative Islam.
Mostly correct, but Mr. Krauthammer fails to recall what you have to grab them by first in order to get their hearts and minds to follow.
Now, I don't want to get any messages saying, "We are holding our position." Let the Hun do that. We are advancing constantly, and we aren't interested in holding onto anything except the enemy. We're gonna hold onto him by the nose, and we're gonna kick him in the a$$. We're gonna kick the he<< out him all the time, and we're gonna go through him like cr@p through a goose.
100% INCORRECT. Read your post WWII history!!
I don't know how a "loyal opposition" can make or unmake a unipolar moment. It only relates to international threats, does it not?
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