[zimdog]

Its not important whether or not I take the Koran literally, rather it is important whether the adherents do. Plenty of evidence here. What percentage of muslims are Sufi's?

It is important, if that's how you interpret the Qur'an. I don't know what percentage of Muslims worldwide espouse a literalist reading of the Qur'an, but would imagine that, as with Christians, it is a relatively small but loud group.

"Do you take Leviticus literally?" Weak, weak argument for a host of reasons but I am sure that you knew that being as smart as you are.

It's not a weak argument at all. It's a question.

[statered]

Your argument seems to be Bible = Koran and Christians = Muslims give or take age of the philosophy and cultural factors. Therefore things said of one religion could be equally applied to the other and to not do so = bigotry. I completely disagree.

Philosophies, while not necessarily apparent at the everyday level, do directly impact at that level in the way people choose to live. They are important. At its most basic levels Islams is founded on a set of assumptions/philosophical tenets that result in a entirely different set of outcomes than many if not most other religions. The fact that this philospohical system is also a religion does not exempt it from examination and *gasp* judgment.

I would maintain that it is the very philosophical system that these groups of people employ that is the basis of the situation they are in, not "victimization" by the western world. That leaves us only a couple of options - confront and defeat these types, isolate them or ourselves from the world, or replace that system - as the Spaniards did in the new world. Changing our aid outlays to the middle east or our policies towards Israel or any of that kind of stuff only addresses the symptoms, not the root cause.

The "nuke Mecca" epithet is simply shorthand for this realization. Quite frankly there is no good solution given our western values. I can assure you though that our opponents (who are numerous in number, more so than you apparently are willing to believe) do not share our values and would have no hesitation in employing the solutions I listed to the problem of the west as they see it.

[lqclamar]

I don't know what percentage of Muslims worldwide espouse a literalist reading of the Qur'an, but would imagine that, as with Christians, it is a relatively small but loud group.

You would be incorrect in imagining that. Literalism is well within the mainstream of Islamic theology and has been since at least the days of Al Ghazali, himself a full fledged literalist.

Ghazali is considered the foremost theologian and thinker of "mainstream" Islam - even more so than Khaldun, who wrote more in the realm of history and politics. His influence is comparable to what Aquinas is to the Catholic Church, or St. Augustine to Christianity.

And as I indicated previously, the "radicals" of Islam like Qutb and Taymiyya took the already extreme premise of literalism, as found well inside the islamic "mainstream" of Ghazali, even further.