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To: Stultis

No they aren't (or rather they are micro-evolution), but they are not real "macro-evolution" becuause they are just variation within kind:

Lets look at another example: once there were on a few type of Canine Dog,but now many would you call any of these (from the small tea-cup poodle to the Great Dane) not dogs: My prediction: NO, but that doesn't mean that it would be easy for a great dane and tea-cup poodle to mate outside the scientific lab. There has clearly been genetic loss on both frots one lost in the info to be "big" and one lost the info to be "small" as part of their genetic changes (and that is just part of the changes). the same can be said of these flys. Clearly there ancestors had both, but gentic variaton and conditions caused these to become seperated (and not contain new genetic information just because of the changes that were inherent to begin with)..They are both variation within kind, not a whole new "kind"/species.


137 posted on 12/15/2006 7:42:20 PM PST by JSDude1 (www.pence08.com)
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To: JSDude1
No they aren't (or rather they are micro-evolution), but they are not real "macro-evolution" becuause they are just variation within kind:

Well, yes, the hawthorn flys example are not (yet) true species, but they do show some significant movement (e.g. reduced fertility) toward that direction. This is just the point. Variation within a kind can lead divergent populations to becoming full species. And when that happens this is "macroevolution" by definition. (Macroevoltuion means evolution above the species level. If a new species arises you're in the realm of macro. If not you're "only" dealing with micro.)

once there were on a few type of Canine Dog,but now many would you call any of these (from the small tea-cup poodle to the Great Dane) not dogs

Your syntax is a little unclear, but anyway "dogs" refers to any member of Family Canidae, or Canids. Domestic dogs ("tea-cup poodle to the Great Dane") are indeed all one species, Canis familiaris.

BUT but there are many "dogs" (canids) which are good and independent species. For instance all true foxes are canids.

Therefore if you want to use the term "dog" in the ordinary scientific sense, claiming that they're all one "kind," then you're effectively admitting (whether or not you realize it) that "macroevolution" DOES occur within "kinds".

Five of those separate dog species are pictured below. Just for fun, can you identify which two of the seven are NOT dogs? Answers here.

Each pic is linked to a larger image.


141 posted on 12/16/2006 10:32:12 AM PST by Stultis
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