Historian Doubts Record of Black Pilots

Newsday & AP ^ | 12/11/06 | n/a

[uncbob]

I find it really hard to believe that these black dudes are better fighters and pilots than their white counterparts. T

well maybe as an average they may have been

Back before PC if you were black you had to be damn good to go through college etc and really motivated

And with all the effort made to have them fail only the really good survive

Something like elite military units

[mortal19440]

My last year as a Navy Pilot I had the honor of meeting one of the airmen while waiting for my annual physical. He didn't push the fact of zero losses, but he did talk about their training losses, their success in battle and the loss of friends. Even if they lost a few planes they still served honorably and a bunch of them were hero's. Correct the history if you want, but that doesn't change their status as real combat pilots and hero's.

[Bender2]

Re: ". . . of course, friendly fire happens to everybody sooner or later, and the Tuskegee Airmen are no more immune to position errors than they are to AA fire."

Again it is sad to say, but not if you listen to them and their representatives...

Back in 1964 when I first read Bob Heinlein's sci-fi novel Farnham's Freehold, I thought the plot of the distant future having the Black Race being in total charge and using the White Race for slaves and an exotic food supply a really great twist on history. However, nowadays I find myself finding the premise closer and closer to coming true...

Ain't it a good thing I am now too old to be prime choice?

[wintertime]

. If it turned out that the Tuskegee Airmen did suffer casualties

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Then the men who risked their lives, or were injured or killed, should be honored. Knowing who they are would give us the opportunity to do this.

[snippy_about_it]

Even if they lost three or four bombers, it would still be minuscule compared to the losses incurred by white pilots who also escorted bombers."

This last sentence in the article is rather disturbing and unnecessary to the article.

That being said, historical accuracy is important and just. It looks from the mission reports that bombers were lost. The men shouldn't take it as an affront to them, just getting the record straight. ALL our servicemen and women in WWII are to be commended for their service, whatever it was and wherever they performed it, their time and sacrifice was sorely needed.

[Doc91678]

No matter what is said the Pilots fought the adversity od racism and still showed they were capable of fighting the enemy. That is a lot more than can be said for those of the "Progressive Marxist Left" of this country.
Even the guys relagated to 8 ball express had to fight their way through enemy lines at times.
They were all as brave as any white soldiers. They did their jobs.

[Doc91678]

No matter what is said the Pilots fought the adversity of racism and still showed they were capable of fighting the enemy. That is a lot more than can be said for those of the "Progressive Marxist Left" of this country.
Even the guys relegated to 8 ball express had to fight their way through enemy lines at times.
They were all as brave as any white soldiers. They did their jobs.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

Another one is the claim that the US posession of airfields on Iwo Jima saved more Army Air Corps B-29 crew lives than the number of marines killed taking Iwo. Simply not close to true.

Don't be too sure--the historian who came to that conclusion did the following:

1. Assumed that all aircraft that landed on Iwo Jima because of low fuel would've made it back to Tinian with no problem. Could someone explain how a plane with fumes in the tanks is guaranteed a safe arrival and landing at Tinian?

2. Assumed that all aircraft that took off successfully after a landing at Iwo Jima would've made it back to Tinian all right.

Basically, he assumed that unless the aircraft crash-landed at Iwo Jima, the landing at Iwo Jima wasn't an "emergency."

[uncbob]

I believe, if the Tuskegee had flown with the 8th AF, they'd have had the rude introduction every allied fighter squadron got over the English Channel and the North Sea.

The true comparison is how the white units performed in the same opefrating area at the same time

[Strategerist]

Basically, he assumed that unless the aircraft crash-landed at Iwo Jima, the landing at Iwo Jima wasn't an "emergency."

The people making the original claim simply took the number of B-29 landings at Iwo multiplied by the number of crewmembers on a B-29 and assumed ALL of them would be dead if they couldn't land at Iwo.

[uncbob]

One thing for sure with all the PC crap going on in this country and what the Great Society has accomplished I wonder if a group could exist( provided an all black unit was allowed )

[ansel12]

"No matter what the truth, the Tuskegee Airmen served their country well and no one should be afraid of the truth. Reminds me of another set of negro pioneers I heard about as a child.







That is an incredible video.

[peeps36]

They do the same thing with the black quarterbacks in the NFL.They claim that Michael Vick is the next Joe Montana because he had two good games.Vick wouldn't be getting nearly as much praise if he was just another white QB.

[Lancey Howard]

How much history is really the lies of the liberal press?

The question itself is chilling.
Today, more than ever, there is a never-ending battle to spin history for political advantage. For example, will Bill Clinton be remembered by history as the sick, lying, impeached and disbarred scumbag he was? Or will his supporters succeed in spinning him as an unfairly attacked, if mediocre, President who reigned uneventfully over a peaceful eight years of Reagan-initiated economic prosperity?

[uncbob]

They do the same thing with the black quarterbacks in the NFL.They claim that Michael Vick is the next Joe Montana because he had two good games.Vick wouldn't be getting nearly as much praise if he was just another white QB.

These days EVERYBODY that can complete a pass gets hyped

Last year it was Big Ben over in Pittsburg --For a while this year Grossman in CHITOWN --The Manning Bowl

Anybody and anything that can up ratings and bring the $$$$$ in

[jamese777]

A soldier named Ronald Wilson Reagan narrated a US military made documentary on the Tuskegee Airmen named "Wings For This Man."

[uncbob]

Today, more than ever, there is a never-ending battle to spin history for political advantage. For example, will Bill Clinton be remembered by history as the sick, lying, impeached and disbarred scumbag he was? Or will his supporters succeed in spinning him as an unfairly attacked, if mediocre, President who reigned uneventfully over a peaceful eight years of Reagan-initiated economic prosperity?

Very true but then there are a heck of a lot more sources for future historians to research ( provide the liberals or muslims don't burn them all)

[jamese777]

"They do the same thing with the black quarterbacks in the NFL.They claim that Michael Vick is the next Joe Montana because he had two good games.Vick wouldn't be getting nearly as much praise if he was just another white QB."

What about Warren Moon, he's in the Hall of Fame, or Doug Williams who led his team to a Super Bowl victory? There are overrated white quarterbacks and there are overrated black quarterbacks. There are also underrated players of both races.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

The people making the original claim simply took the number of B-29 landings at Iwo multiplied by the number of crewmembers on a B-29 and assumed ALL of them would be dead if they couldn't land at Iwo.

Reasonably safe bet--nobody tried to land at Iwo if they thought they could get back to Tinian. And it would've been a LONG swim back.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

The true comparison is how the white units performed in the same opefrating area at the same time

You weren't supposed to notice that.