Did A Lone Rabbi Mean to Ban Christmas Trees?

Townhall.com ^ | December 10, 2006 | Michael Medved

[Vicomte13]

There are all sorts of cultural traditions that have been incorporated into modern culture, religious culture included. The days of the week and names of the months, planets, major stars and constellations, for starters. The names of countries and regions and oceans and seas. People's names, in many cases.

And, of course, foodstuffs.
Cocoa was a sacred drink among the MesoAmerican god-rulers. Is it therefore pagan to drink cocoa?

When coffee drinking was introduced into Italy, a popular saying among churchmen was "Coffee is from the devil, but we have baptized it."

There was, no doubt, a Germanic tradition of the evergreen tree, which is a great symbol in the dead of the Northern European winters of something that remains green and promises the renewal of life with the spring. Baptize the notion, and put a star and an angel on the tree, and it becomes a great metaphor for Christianity itself.

There's no problem taking old pagan rites and turning them into tools of Christian learning.

[Albion Wilde]

"Perhaps the Menoarah should simply be referred to as a Holiday Candelabra, or Holiday Candle Holder."
Nope, sorry, you'll offend the Feminist-Americans and the Youth-Impaired. Better stick with Holiday Candle-Thingy.

LOL!! Priceless!

[LanaTurnerOverdrive]

The Framers of the Constitution made a mistake not declaring in the Bill of Rights that Christianity is the official religion of the State

You forgot the sarcasm tag.

Also, welcome to FR.

[Kirkwood]

"The same applies to "Kirkwood" and his posts on this thread."

Have I backpedaled? Nope. I am still convinced this rabbi is not pure of heart, but has a political agenda based on his personal bigotry. By the way, Christmas is a NATIONAL HOLIDAY and the airport has a legitimate reason to put up holiday trees for the occasion. I would like to see them also put up the menorah and a nativity scene as well, but I don't think either should be forced on them under a threat of a lawsuit. Holiday trees without religious ornaments are simply seasonal decorations for a NATIONAL HOLIDAY just like flags and bunting are for Independence day.

[Old_Mil]

Dear Rabbi,

As I'm sure you've realized by now, Seattle is under the control of leftist atheists who have much sympathy for the palestinians and hate Jews and Christians equally. It's unfortunate that it took this for you to realize that they would turn your request to their own ends.

Maybe now you understand that the Jewish people have far more to fear in the modern world from the left than from the right.

[Kirkwood]

I have yet to hear him apologize. I would acccept that if he did it in a sincere way and not through his lawyer. It has not yet made the national media. The fact is that he insulted 95% of the citizens of this country and a lot of us are getting fed up with this.

[MeanWestTexan]

Just a thought: without the miracle of Hanukkah there would be no Christmas.

If Antiochus had succeeded in forcing ALL Jews to assimilate, there would be no Jewish people (well, maybe some Sephardi), and thus no Joseph, Mary, or Jesus.

Ergo, it is quite stupid for any Christians to complain about the Menorah.

Indeed, I am candidly surprised that they do not celebrate the miracle --- they certainly accept that it literally occured, possibly more than most Jews.

[Mamzelle]

Attorney Harvey Grad is a Democrat donor. (newsmeat.com)

[APRPEH]

good point... sort of like someone saying... the Egyptians suffered too much during Hotzias Mitzraim...

[Kirkwood]

"Wow, you believe it's bigoted to desire a holiday display be put up in a public place... and to work towards that goal. "

Read what I wrote again. I never said that. In fact I would like to see menorahs put up as well for the holidays. I have them as part of my decorations at home. What I dislike is someone who demands that either menorahs be put up or else the holiday trees have to come down. That is a bad way to get people on your side. Considering that Christmas is also a NATIONAL HOLIDAY, that would be like someone asking that unless the flag of ____ country is also flown on July 4th, then all US flags must come down. If there was a nativity scene at the airport, then I think he would have a legitimate complaint, but holiday trees are not a religious symbol. They are a secular symbol.

[Albion Wilde]

Instead they "washed their hands" of the issue of the display of religion in the public square. So unChristian of them.

I trust you can make your points without dissing in terms of Christian precepts. Like Judaism, which is practiced by a minority of ethnic Jews in the U.S., not all Gentile ethnics practice Christianity, even some who attend churches. It is offensive to continue to imply hypocrisy on the part of Christians if you don't know the religious convictions of the airport administrators.

That said, being a Christian, I won't be suing you over it. Lighten up, dolling!

[Sabramerican]

Knowing the holiday and the motivation of this Rabbi, I would assume he would ask for a Menorah also in the absence of any tree.

The Rabbi has every right to file suit if he chooses.

He is not suing to remove the trees. I doubt he and his organization would be suing to remove any Christian display.

To defend themselves, the Airport choose to remove the trees.

Put the blame where it belongs. If the Airport believed it had a case to deny the Menorah, it should have called the Rabbi on the suit. If it didn't, why did it deny the Menorah?

A Menorah is not contraindicated for Christmas. There would have been no Christmas but for the story of the Menorah and the Books of Maccabees is a Catholic Deuterocanonical book.

The Rabbi had every reason to believe the Airport would respond as have numerous entities in the Nation. No one reasonable would have expected them to go nuts.

[livius]

I think the whole thing got out of hand, but I think if he had seriously been interested in just getting a menorah up there, he would have written a request that could have been examined next year - before the trees were up.

I'm a Christian and I do not consider the "Christmas" tree to be a Christian symbol, except in the German/English cultural context, where it has now become more of a shopping season symbol than anything else. It has no religious resonance with people who don't already believe, and in fact has so little religious resonance in general that most Catholic countries reject it and many Protestants here in the US do not accept it.

The Lubavitchers are an odd group. When I lived in NY, they were always out in the streets asking you if you were Jewish or not. I'm not, and I'm also a woman, so I never found out what they'd do if I had been Jewish. But one time I was walking with a Jewish male friend, and when he said he was Jewish, they asked him if he'd like to put on tefillim and step into the "mitzvah tank."

This is not a bad thing, but they are often way too aggressive in their actions vis a vis the rest of the (non-Jewish) world. In New York, just before I left about 6 years ago, we had two things hanging over 5th Avenue - a giant menorah, courtesy of the Lubavitchers after a threatened lawsuit, and - snowflakes. This may have changed, but somehow, if one group (the Lubavitchers) get to put up an undisputably religious symbol for something that was not even a High Holy Day, and the other group (Christians, the majority of New Yorkers) gets to put up snowflakes, I think we have a problem.

This was not done in a way that was really seeking accomodation. It was done to stamp out the majority culture, even if they weren't religious, since as I have pointed out, the "Christmas" tree is not even considered religious by most Christians, and to offend. Otherwise, he wouldn't have hired lawyers and he would have simply contacted the city in the spring and asked for a menorah next year.This is something that could have been discussed, and he would have had to present reasons for which the menorah should be accepted, even though it is not a general American cultural feature, but clearly a religious symbol.

[TL04]

Exactly. And if the Italians, my fellow Irish and other groups didn't speak up then those signs may still be hanging in the stores. This guy's approach was way off but his intent was to speak up. He just did a lousy job getting his point across. The lawsuit, which should never have been filed, didn't say take down the trees. It merely said if other's are there, then so should mine be. As you know, the fact that the trees were removed nullifiled the legal challenge.

[daviscupper]

Attorney Harvey Grad is a Democrat donor. (newsmeat.com)

This would make sense. The actions of the attorney and the Rabbi are right out of the ACLU's "hate America, hate Christians" handbook.

[gogogodzilla]

What's wrong with displaying the holidays of those who are citizens of America?

I doubt that Seattle would make this much fuss if a Buddhist had asked the Port Authority for permission to set up a display in honor of Buddha's birthday in late January or early February.

But heaven forbid a Jew be granted the same.

---

(Possibly from the mind of the Port Authority director)

What's this? A request to put up a Hannukah display? I dunno... I know, I'll just dither about and push off the decision until after Hannukah is over, whenever that is.

What's this? A lawsuit? D@mn Jews, forcing me to make a decision! Who do those uppity snots think they are! Don't they know that this is a Christian country! You all need to shut the h@ll up... upgrateful SOBs.

I know - I just get rid of all the 'Holiday Trees' and blame the Jew... heh, heh, heh...

[Sabramerican]

It is offensive

Re-read this and several of the other threads on the subject and get back to me about what's offensive.

[MeanWestTexan]

Well, the Egyptians did recently try to sue for the "stolen" gold.

Seriously.

[swarthyguy]

Seattle Imam says "Inshallah" about Rabbi's threatened lawsuit resulting in Christmas Holiday trees being removed at SeaTac Airport.

[Albion Wilde]

No, you misstate the issue. The trees had nothing to do with it, the issue is the Menorah.

Actually, you and I agree that putting up a Menorah is a non-issue; I wish the airport had just done so. That post I responded to seemed to put the issue on a "who pays the piper calls the tune" footing, which I reject.

I also very much resent the use of the legal system to suppress Christianity, and sympathize with the many Christians who have felt persecuted within this country by secularists, atheists and over-zealous members of non-Christian religions who are trying to make equivalency at every turn in the road. It has not been enough that the majority culture has sheltered many minorities. We must also silence our own, which promoted the tolerance in the first place. To me, this is killing the goose that laid the golden eggs (with all due respect to Poultry-Americans), and will backfire.