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Can Democracy Be Imposed?
The American Chronicle ^ | December 2, 2006 | Dr. Alamgir Hussain

Posted on 12/03/2006 6:43:56 PM PST by Lorianne

Not in Muslim countries. And the reasons lie in fundamental doctrines of Islam.

In the post-9/11 era, the Bush administration's new project of spreading freedom and democracy in the dictators-ruled countries became one of the most discussed and closely followed topics in the media and at levels of the society. As the world gets increasing plagued by violence, unleashed by the Islamic fundamentalists and terrorist groups, a way to turn the tide of violence towards peace was indeed a desirable idea to the peace and freedom-loving people in the world. Although many doubted the means Bush administration undertook to spread democracy around the world, yet there was hardly any disagreement to the fact that freedom, democracy and good governance can usher in peace and prosperity. Believing in this fundamental premise, many in the US and around the world supported the Bush administration's aggressive policy of instituting democracy by overthrowing authoritarian Governments in Iraq and Afghanistan.

However, the adventure of spreading democracy itself did not succeed in those two countries until now. All indications suggest that it is neither going to be successful in the end. And what we witness today is that the Bush administration's policy of spreading democracy in the hope making those countries a more hopeful and peaceful place has failed as things stand now. Not only that, those two countries have, instead, become massive breeding grounds for the terrorists and the world is at its worst, as far as the threats violent groups and activities are concerned.

As it appears now, the skeptics of the Bush administration's policy of exporting democracy, who had argued that democracy cannot be exported or imposed on a people from outside, might have been right. They have argued that freedom and democracy have to evolve from within. So we can safely say that these skeptics were right and the Bush administration war architects were wrong. Upfront, I want to assert that both the skeptics of Bush formula as well as its supporters are only partially right and partially wrong.

Can democracy be imposed from without? It is a stale analysis to go into given that hundreds of commentaries have been written on this topic in the last few years. I will try to be brief. If we look back into the 1930s and 40s, we see clearly that world's most incorrigible dictators of that ear – the imperialists dictators of Japan, the brutal expansionist Nazis of Germany and the deadly fascists of Italy – have been replaced by the fine democratic governments imposed by the intervention of the allied force in the post-WW II period.

The skeptics might argue that the rule has changed now and it does not work anymore. Afghanistan and Iraq are the most obvious examples. They probably would appear correct. Let us consider the intervention in mainly Christian Bosnia-Herzegovina. After the downfall of dictatorial communism, these regions ran into a disastrous civil war as a result of religio-ethnic fighting between the minority Muslims and the majority Christians. Unlike Afghanistan and Iraq , intervention quickly brought the fighting and violence under control. Since then, reconciliation, reconstructions and democratic processes have made steady progress. All indications suggest that secular democracy and peace will be strengthened and lasting. However, there is one concern. Islamic fundamentalism in on the rise and al-Qaeda and other like-minded Islamist terrorist groups are spreading their tentacles there. Hence, the future of a lasting peace and democracy in Bosnia-Herzegovina will sonly depend on how the Muslims behave in the coming years and decades?

Similar, the United States' forced ouster of Charles Taylor of Liberia and Aristride of Haiti, both Christian countries have so far held in good stead. More pressing interventions in Muslim countries, namely in Somalia and Afghanistan, have miserably failed. Instead of bringing democracy and peace, interventions in these countries have made the world a much more dangerous place. These interventions are inspiring Muslims at far corners of the world to form new terrorist groups and strengthening the already existing outfits. There are no indications that interventions in Christian countries, namely Bosnia-Herzegovina and Kosovo, have inspired any Christian group in Nigeria, Philippines , Australia, USA , Canada or South America to create terrorist groups and unleash violence of any sort.

Those who argue that democracy cannot be imposed from foreign interventions are obviously wrong if considered the interventions in Japan, Italy and Germany in post-WW II era. All indications from the more recent but unfinished interventions in the Balkan and in Liberia and Haiti also prove them wrong. However they are right, while the Bush administration and their cheer leaders are utterly wrong, when considered the interventions in Somalia in 1993 and more recent ones in Afghanistan and Iraq.

In order to understand this intriguing disparity in success of outside interventions in Muslims and non-Muslim countries, one must grasp the basic understanding of the fundamental precepts of Islam, the common ideological denominator that bind them together. Islamic scholars over the centuries have divided the world into two domains. The first being the Darul Islam (house of peace), which constitute the domains dominated or ruled by the Muslims according to the Islamic laws. The other is the Darul-Harb (house of war), which is dominated and ruled by the non-Muslims and Muslims must wage incessant war (so 'house of war') against it in order to bring into the domain of Darul-Islam so that it can be put in line with the wishes of the almighty creator.

The towering Islamic thinker, historian and philosopher Ibn Khaldun (d. 1406), who according to one of Prof. Tariq Ramadan, is one the Islamic contributor to the Greek rationalism, philosophy and science, that were later transmitted to the Europeans [ Roots of Rationality, Guardian

22 Sept, 2006]. In affirming this principle of Islam, Ibn Khaldun wrote of the Christians in his greatest treatise, Muqaddimah:

We do not think that we should blacken the pages of this book with discussion of their [Christian] dogmas of unbelief. In general, they are well known. All of them are unbelief. This is clearly stated in the noble Koran. To discuss or argue those things with them is not up to us. It is for them to choose between conversion to Islam, payment of the poll tax, or death. [For more affirmation, see Koran: 9:29]

In affirmation of Koranic edict of fighting the infidels until religion is Allah's alone (Koran 8:39), He furthered wrote of the Darul-harb in Muqaddimah :

"In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty because of the universalism of the mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force. The other religious groups did not have a universal mission, and the holy war was not a religious duty for them, save only for purposes of defense." [Quoted in State and Governance in Medieval Islam, Ann Lambton (1981), Oxford University Press, New York , p201]

In today's violence and terrorism stricken world, those involved in the desperate search for peace, should understand the basic fundamental of Islam. Darul-Islam (Islamic world) is the perfect abode of peace, which is achievable only by the institution of the divine laws of the only true God, Allah. It does not require outside intervention and extra-Islamic doctrines. Islam is the complete and perfect code of life for governing perfectly all aspects of human life: social, spiritual, religious, political, economic and whatsoever. A detailed historical study also tells us that never in the history of pious Islamic rule, the state of affairs have rarely been different and better in Muslim kingdoms than what we see in the Islamic world today.

Islamic countries, holding the most perfect divine codes of Islam to govern all aspects of their life perfectly, obviously do not require importing, nor do they accept freedom, secularism and democracy, which are invented by the humans and particularly by the non-Muslims. On the other hand, Darul-harb, which is ruled by the laws, created by the fault-prone human beings or false Gods, has scope of improvement. So, the imposition for democracy and freedom from outside were quickly accepted by countries like Japan, Germany and Italy amongst others. So, the policy-makers who might be at a fix over their repeated failures to achieve those goals in Muslim countries, which are easily achievable elsewhere, must understand these fundamental distinctions between Islamic and the non-Islamic countries.

Alamgir Hussain (PhD) is an author in " Beyond Jihad – Critical Voices from Inside" (Academica Press).


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: islam; west
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To: uncbob

“Surviving Mohammedism: A Guide for Countering PC Idiots in the 21st Century”

This is not going to be an interminable tract delineating the scope and the magnitude of the barbarous assault Mohammedism (let’s not use PC compliant terms like “Islam”) is waging against the West; that’s been done already, copiously recorded and reported in any number of broadcast and print media, blogs and internet web sites. This is a simple program; it requires no organizational skill or gathering of resources, capital, or mass membership in some cause driven assembly or caravan of fellow-travellers. It is simply a set of personal rules to follow daily and to adhere to without deviance for any reason.

Let’s begin then.

Rule One. If you attend a church, synagogue, temple, or participate in some other religious/spiritual/charitable congregation of like-minded fellows, and the leadership (pastors, rabbis, priests, gurus or what have you) describes Mohammedism as a religion of peace, as being one of the three “Great Abrahamic Monotheistic Religions” the other two being Judaism and Christianity, you must either persuade the leadership to stop stating this absurdity or you must stop attending, participating, tithing, or supporting the organization. Just say “no”. And then act on your decision. Vote with your time, with your support and with your money. The black rock deity, “Allah” was no more than an Arabic pagan moon god that Mohammed cynically appropriated for personal gain, power and booty remains to this day a lifeless pebble baking in a Godless desert hellhole, a massive deception mindlessly venerated by deceived, largely illiterate, pagan adherents, a massive fraud perpetuated through violent enslavement and bloodshed at the tip of the sword. Mohammedism is a no exit, no choice, demonic, death cult.

Rule Two. Politically, all elected officials from Town Administrator to President of the United States, desperately need your support, money, and vote. Any elected official that makes the above claim about Mohammedism, and then appends that the peaceful religion of Islam has been “hi-jacked” by radical extremists, must never receive your support, money, or your vote. Find someone rational, committed to truth and courageous in defending truth that deserves your support. Do not support or vote for appeasers and apologists for Mohammedism who renege on their constitutional oath to “Protect, Honour and Defend the People and the Constitution of the United States from all Enemies Foreign and Domestic”. Just say no. And stand by your convictions (this rule applies to officials who refuse to defend our borders as well but that will be addressed in a different tract “Surviving Illegal Aliens: An Idiot’s Guide to the Traitors Who Are Destroying our Borders and Surrendering our Culture”).

Rule Three. Identify those products and/or services that fund any Mohammedan run company or proselytizing activity and boycott them. Just say no. This is fairly easy to do as the Mohammedan world exports little of consequence except of course, oil and terror. How to get along without oil? Find alternatives you can afford and apply them to your lifestyle. Telecommute/teleconference whenever you can, walk or bike to the market, postpone or cancel travel to the extent you are able. Buy a hybrid vehicle, or convert to burn used vegetable oil in your car; buy a scooter (150 mpg), get a coal, wood, or wood pellet burning stove, or if your climate is sunny, look into solar and solar assisted energy systems. Buy a push mower. Wind power is available if you live where wind is constant. Even if you live in a place populated by fat, selfish, hypocritical limousine liberals like Ted Kennedy who oppose wind power farms off Cape Cod fearing their ocean front compound views will be aesthetically diminished, you can buy and install smaller wind generator units for personal use. Burn candles for lighting and enjoy the ambience! Dry your wash on a clothesline. View every watt you convert or conserve through an alternate energy source as one more bullet in the neck of the Mohammedan terror. (Hugo Chavez’ socialist dictatorship in Venezuela can also be in your sights which is just a happy bonus.)

Rule Four. Any politician unwilling to expand exploration and refinery capacity in the United States of America is undeserving of being an American much less a leader of our nation. Just say no, and vote them out office.

Rule Five. Identify Mohammedan institutions operating in the United States and peacefully do all in your power to cut off their air (boycott them economically of course), and to embarrass, mock and ridicule them.
The Koran, the Hadiths, the Sunnah, and Sharia Jurisprudence will provide more than all the ammunition you will ever need. Disrupt their public gatherings with proof of their perfidy and violence. Mohammedans will not disappoint you. Their howls of anguish will not be pleas to reconcile their differences with you but will consist of calls for your total, utterly violent and bloody destruction. Mohammedans have outlawed (under pain of death) any faith but Mohammedism not only in their “spiritual homeland” of Saudi Arabia (our “ally”) but in every Mohammedan country including the recently “liberated” Iraq and Afghanistan. Compute also the life expectancy of a Christian living and proclaiming his faith in Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, or Jordan, and you will find that for Christians living openly and sharing their faith, life is “nasty, brutish and short”. Shall we not fairly reciprocate in kind in our own national, spiritual homeland, the United States of America? Should we ignore the words of Winston Churchill’s prescient warning to pre-war Britain, to not feed the crocodile in our midst in the hope that we shall be devoured last?

Rule Six. Mohammedism is a terror-based death cult and has always been a terror-based death cult. It is not and has never been a “religion of peace”. Whenever you are asked what we should do about Mohammedism or about stopping the terror Mohammedism visits daily on the civilized world, smile gently and say “Kill them all of course, unless they recant and discard their bloody, terrorist, so-called religion.” Then you should ask politely “what do you think we should do?” Be pleasant at all costs, the solution is admittedly harsh, however, considering the solution is in fact the demonstrated course of action the Mohammedans have embarked on against us, you are merely being reasonable. No sense being obnoxious about it, the Mohammedans picked the fight and they made the rules; which are simple: there are no rules. No other fix is possible or even imaginable. Mohammedism must be destroyed and you must be unabashed to advance the premise that the destruction of Mohammedism is an imperative rather than a choice among options. I personally do not view dhimmitude as an option for Americans. I leave that option to the Eurabians—they have already opted for dhimmitude. Buh bye Chirac!!! Best wishes mon ami; if we have time and a surplus, we will send you some of the Korans we will all soon be burning as fuel in our wood stoves all over the United States…

Rule Seven. Do not give aid or comfort to the enemy. Do not patronize any 7-11, Golden Gallon, Stop and Go, etc., that employs Mohammedan workers. Same rule applies for hotels and restaurants, landscapers, retail stores, airlines, manufacturers or any other commercial activity. Inform them what you are doing and why you are doing it. Cut off the air supply of your money. Do not knowingly hire Mohammedans. In contrast, do support and encourage with your prayers and friendship any former Mohammedan who has recanted his enslavement to Mohammed and adopted a worldview based on individual freedom and choice. Converting them to Christianity is preferable, but not necessarily inevitable. Truth or its effect on personal conscience sometimes arrives in stages; Atheism is preferable to Mohammedism. Belief in nothing bears its own cost; over time Atheism finds its own vacuum intolerable. Atheism is a faith system of its own, a non-introspective denial of reality, subject to constant testing and validation, two processes Atheism cannot long endure, especially if the adherent is merely inattentive or bored rather than a committed evangelist for the abyss ahead.

Rule Eight. Arm yourself with both truth and weapons. The truth will be your abiding comfort; the weapons will be your defence in the coming war between the West and Mohammedism. The “War on Terror” is a malapropism at best and moral cowardice at worst. You will be unarmed for the imminent, inexorable confrontation between American freedom and enslavement under Mohammedism if you neglect to prepare. Do not allow yourself (or your loved ones) to be lulled to sleep by the chattering appeasing surrender monkeys in Paris, London, Berlin, and Washington who are even now negotiating treaties, offering bribes from our national treasure, capitulating while weakly pleading for peace from an implacable, death worshipping enemy committed to our destruction. Forget Europe. Europe will be of no assistance to America. Europe has already descended into darkness. Americans love life and freedom and will sacrifice blood and treasure if need be to preserve both. Mohammedans fear life and freedom; instead they seek death to escape the responsibility of life and to avoid the hard labour and true moral courage to establish and maintain freedom. There simply are no Mohammedans living in freedom in any Mohammedan ruled nation on earth.

Rule Nine. When you meet a Mohammedan, ask the following two part question: “Do you support the constitution of the United States and will you put America first in all you do, or are you a faithful Mohammedan first, lying in ambush to destroy our freedom and to conquer my country?” Be sure to tell them (before they answer), you do not ask the question to get an answer. You fully expect they will lie to you in any event, whether they affirm the former and deny the latter or pick a third position (deception is an honoured and celebrated art form among these deceitful wretches). You just want to let them know that you, as an American, have already made up your mind on what we will do regardless of their answer; Mohammedans are not welcome in our country as long as they are Mohammedans. Warn all Mohammedans that the day is coming when all the Mohammedans will leave America whether they want to or not. Americans will not concern themselves over how they leave; under their own power or in a body bag as long as they leave. After all, this is what Mohammedans intend to do to us and have done to us in their nations as well as here in America.

Rule Ten. Post and write everything you know about the “religion of peace” all over the internet, on store bulletin boards, telephone poles, and to your local paper. Get your own website and sell merchandise supporting the elimination of the terror spawning cult of Mohammedism. Call them Mohammedans whenever you refer to them. They really hate this because it is exactly what they are (and what they have always been called by all educated westerners until PC and a general acceptance of dhimmitude began to re-shape our language and distort every useful word or phrase employed for the purpose of discernment and judgment). Honestly naming and identifying the nature and cruel designs of the filthy author and sole vector of an insane, virulent, violent ideology of terror is appropriate and necessary. One cannot deny that Mohammedism has enslaved and condemned billions to utter despair and hopelessness in this life as well as to eternal death in the next. Until the death cult of Mohammed is finally eradicated from among all the nations of Earth, you and your loved ones will forever live under an increasingly imminent threat of death and violence at their hands.


41 posted on 12/03/2006 10:02:41 PM PST by the anti-mahdi
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To: advance_copy
Good. 40 years of tyranny is more responsible for many problems than Islam. It is very debiitating to individuas and society. In both Iraq and Afghanistan we are combatting subversives from neighboring countries. Is that caused by Islam? But the biggest problem is our own expectations. Who put a deadline on this project? It took 10 years to get Germany and Japan on their feet and the projects were not overtly oppoed by neighbors.

A part of me wonders if we shouldn't give Iran and Syria something else to worry about. Pundits in penthouses are hopeless.

42 posted on 12/03/2006 10:05:51 PM PST by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: Lorianne

Author is an EX-muslim

http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm


43 posted on 12/03/2006 10:38:34 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: rawcatslyentist
Kinda like WWII. Japan and Germany.

Yup. Kinda like.

44 posted on 12/03/2006 10:42:27 PM PST by EvilOverlord (Socialism makes workers into slaves and couch potatoes into kings)
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To: Lorianne

Many of these Nations also have Guild culture, similar to our unions {in there early days}. Sunni Butchers understand their Shea rivals. Same for Bakers, Oil Workers, Weavers, etc. In some areas Even the Beggers have Guild!

Perhaps the next Muslim Republic should have Guild based Senate. I doubt that the Cleric Guild would get more than 1 Seat in a 100 seat Senate.

Read your Heinlein Juveniles, again.


45 posted on 12/03/2006 11:02:01 PM PST by PizzaDriver (an heinleinian/libertarian)
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To: Billthedrill
Back in my youth I read The Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater. (Actually ghost-written in 1960 by the grandfather of L. Brent Bozell.) Goldwater criticized the current mania on the part of the US and UN for ending colonial rule in Africa and elsewhere. He was especially caustic on the idea that democracy was exportable and that everybody was ready for it. Due to cultural differences, he felt that exporting democracy was a fool's errand. Only those cultures that had an experience with English Common Law, either by culture or by conquest, could handle self-rule. There were simply some societies that were not ready for self-government. Sometimes the best that could be expected was a benevolent despot, and preferably one that sided with us rather than the Soviets.

A "nation" of Sunni Kurds, Sunni Arabs and Shia Arabs -- all itching to dominate and even kill each other -- cannot function as a stable platform for democracy. The Kurds view the Arabs as a lower form of life, somewhere between worms and lizards, and would prefer not to share a country with them. The Sunni and Shia Arabs have been persecuting each other for 14 centuries, and their attitude appears to be, "Why mess with success?"

One question that our soldiers began asking was, "Is Iraq the way it is because of Saddam, or was Saddam the way he was because of Iraq?" At first we thought it was the former, but now it appears to be the latter.

This ties in to what I call the Trashcan Theory of History. There are some countries that can only function when a trashcan lid is firmly put in place. Remove that lid and all kinds of horrible things pour out.

Occasionally, a trashcan lid works a miracle, and the people are ready for self-rule. Spain under Franco is a good example. When the Spanish Civil War ended with a German intervention, half the people of Spain were quite willing to kill the other half. Franco's 36 years of military dictatorship gave the Spanish a cooling-off period. The Spanish hated and feared Franco more than they hated and feared each other, and Franco offered 36 years of stability. Once he was gone, the people were ready to rule themselves, and aside from a single hiccup early in Juan Carlos' rule, they've done quite well.

Iraq and Yugoslavia are good examples of trashcan lids being removed before people were ready. Regrettably, I'm coming to believe that only a strongman can hold that country together, and preferably someone less psychotic than Saddam.

46 posted on 12/03/2006 11:08:15 PM PST by Publius (A = A)
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To: Publius
Very well said.

Unfortunately, the ugly truth is that while you may export "democracy" - and we can argue on another thread about the worthiness of that ideal - You cannot give someone freedom. They have to be willing to stand up for themselves and take it.

Democracy imposed is just another form of tyranny.

Col Sanders

47 posted on 12/04/2006 10:14:21 AM PST by Col Sanders (I ought to tear your no-good Goddang preambulatory bone frame, and nail it to your government walls)
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To: Old_Mil
It's quite another to stay there trying to turn the nation into a western democracy that appreciates cable TV.

They appreciate cable TV already. That's partially why they have such problems with power outages-- all the new appliances and such that came across the border unimpeded once Saddam fell and we had too few troops to watch the borders.

48 posted on 12/04/2006 10:37:52 AM PST by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: cookcounty
My son is recently back from Iraq, and spent a lot of time with Iraqis. He says what these people need most of all is "a different religion." They are slaves to the thugs and gangsters, who thrive in an Islamic environment, easily bending Allah to speak their will.

Then Iraq is an intractable problem. The Iraqis know that we don't really respect their religion and that we'd convert them all if we could manage it. They know that we feel that way about all Muslims in the Middle East. They know we only have interest in them because of their oil and that we'd prefer to be in control of it. Therefore, they don't trust us and they will refuse to do what we want them to do. Having US troops there is, as you said, is only making the terrorists in Iraq popular.

49 posted on 12/04/2006 10:53:13 AM PST by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: Lorianne
The not-so-secret success of Islam is the submissive nature of muslim women. The culture REWARDS submissive behaviour. Unwanted pregnancies and dis-respect of every variety are considered "badges of honor" for Muslim women.

Suicide, self-abnegation and self-destructive behaviours are rewarded as virtuous and necessary for Islam. Donating a child to wear a bomb-belt netted $30k from Saddam Hussein.

The hogwash about Islam being the protector of women's rights is like the fox crowing about how well he watches the hen house.

50 posted on 12/04/2006 2:42:26 PM PST by x_plus_one (Franklin Graham: "Allah is not the God of Moses. Allah had no son")
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To: EvilOverlord

16 - "Overthrowing the government, then immediately handing over to the people in a country like Iraq is probably not the way to go about it. Forceful occupation, elimination of the existing culture, and building up a western-style culture over the course of 20-30 years may do it."

---

Good idea, in theory, however, unfortunatly, Islam culture, not only discourages independent thinking necessary for a democracy, but it is absolutely incompatible, because it basically prohibits "individual responsibility". This is because everything that happens is 'Alah's will', both good and bad, and therefore no individual is responsible for anything, therefore, no one but those who 'speak for Alah' can direct them.

And as they are not responsible for anything that happens, they don't 'understand' 'democracy', where individuals are responsible for their own actions. God is responsible for their actions. It is the ultimate 'cop-out' religion, with a free, guaranteed ticket to a sexual orgy for eternity to anyone who dies killing those who try to defy god's will.

This is a really powerful inducement. How can you beat the promise of an eternity of orgasms?

We do in fact have some good examples of your idea, with British Colonialism, primarily India and Pakistan, which were only 'India', under british rule, for 100 years, and when they became independent, India (Hindu) turned into a real democracy, and Pakistan turned into an unstable democracy, which continually and repeatedly returned to a dictatorship.


51 posted on 12/05/2006 11:26:16 AM PST by XBob (Jail the employers of the INVADERS !!)
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To: advance_copy

23 - "Twelve million purple-fingered Iraqis were not forced to vote. They did, in spite of the threats to their life, because they want democracy. It was not forced on them."

WRONG!!

The ones who governed by Alah's will, the (Yankyi's), the ones with the biggest guns, TOLD them to vote, so they voted. They followed the direction of Alah - the ones with the biggest guns are Alah's appointed leaders.


52 posted on 12/05/2006 12:18:07 PM PST by XBob (Jail the employers of the INVADERS !!)
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To: cookcounty

27 - " Not historically accurate, unless you're willing to argue that Japan is not democratic. Of course, MacArthur literally altered the theological landscape of Japanese religion before imposing democracy. To impose democracy in the muslim world, a theological reconstruction may also be a pre-requisite.

My son is recently back from Iraq, and spent a lot of time with Iraqis. He says what these people need most of all is "a different religion." They are slaves to the thugs and gangsters, who thrive in an Islamic environment, easily bending Allah to speak their will."

---

BTTT = You and your son have it exactly right.

Thank your son, and keep spreading the word. (See my last few posts - I spent 5 years in the mid-east.



53 posted on 12/05/2006 12:23:12 PM PST by XBob (Jail the employers of the INVADERS !!)
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To: Blake#1

Freedom to wage "holy war"? Freedom to elect leaders who believe in genocide? If democracy in Iraq leads to such, as is incredibly probable, will you call it worth the price then?


54 posted on 12/06/2006 2:16:18 PM PST by Giant Conservative
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