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To: CWOJackson

Thanks for the insight. Do remember when this contract was being bid, the hull had to be a "Proven Design." (Hull and propulsion plant had to been put together before). The problem was this type craft had not been built since the early 60's or before.

Like you mention the fuel issue. The hull was a "Proven Design," that was unchanged, but the CG completely changed the load of the vessel. The reason for the "Proven Design" was the CG has a terrible reputation of designing and buying camels (designed by committee) failures. This was to solve the problem. From personal business they have one of the most inept Engineering/Naval Archetecture groups on the planet. Personally would much rather deal with Navy contacts then ever get their spec. They create their own disasters.


64 posted on 12/02/2006 3:49:38 AM PST by Quick Shot
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To: Quick Shot
"From personal business they have one of the most inept Engineering/Naval Archetecture groups on the planet."

This is almost an understatement. Unfortunately Coast Guard Naval Engineering is in the hands of the inbred staffs at Headquarters and the two MLC's (Maintenance and Logistics Commands). That society is pretty much confined to a small select group of officers and civilians who have punched the right tickets and arrived...and live in a world thoroughly insulated from reality. To complicate matters, instead of operators (ship drivers who should have a great deal of input) and field engineers (the folks who still have honest dirt under their nails and don't have daily racket ball sessions), they're influenced by the latest study group and bean counters.

You want a shinning example of that look at their latest crowning achievement, the CGC HEALY. The HEALY was built to compliment the two Polar Class icebreakers. It's design incorporated all sorts of initiatives designed to make it an effective platform with lower operating costs: in reality it is undermanned to the point of endangering the crew, it is underpowered and handles like a pig, and is incapable of independent heavy ice operations.

I'll just concentrate on the manning side for illustration. It was deliberately designed to be heavily automated and needed a crew about a 4th the size of a contemporary vessel. The theory was, if everything is automated you won't need so many grunt workers (unqualified people right out of boot camp) to wipe up oil, wash dishes, scrub decks, help qualified people on watch (while learning a specialty), etc. Also, if everything is automated instead of needing twelve people to stand watches in a particular section you only need three. And why have all those extra people to wash dishes when you can serve airline like meals...might as well cut morale down three-quarters while we're at it.

Sounds good in theory and the costs savings obviously looked good on paper, but missing was any touch of reality.

1) People don't just walk on board knowing their jobs on a highly specialized, one of a kind, ship... but on the HEALY they need to know the job when they walk on board. The Coast Guard's answer was to create alternating crews that undergo full training in port on high dollar simulators, etc. That's been a real dud.

2) All those "extra" bodies weren't just there for the ride. While their normal duties may have seemed unessential they were very essential for other needs. For those that don't know, when an emergency occurs on a ship, all those nonessential people go to assigned locations where they can be quickly dispatched to fight fires, fix damage, control flooding, etc...all of which they've been trained to do. These damage control parties are what save ships...not automated systems. A major casualty (damage, flooding, fire) on the HEALY will most likely be disastrous.

3) Automation might allow you to reduce watchstanders in a section from twelve to three, but it can't do anything when one of those three catches the flu...instead of eleven sharing the extra load it's just two.

4) Decks still get dirty, trash still needs emptying, oil still needs wiped up, etc. Now, instead of those nonessential personal, you have essential people (already over worked) having to do menial housekeeping chores as well. Don't get me wrong, I personally don't mind if officer and chiefs have to make their own beds, but it ticks me off that the third class petty officer who has worked hard to move up is now doing scud work again...and his/her new duties. In response, HEADQUARTERS ACTUALLY PROPOSED that normal housekeeping be skipped.

Nothing like deploying to an Arctic region for six-nine months on a dirty ship, over worked and eating airline food.

I happened to be there when that committee "side launched" the HEALY into the Mississippi River. For those who don't know, that means sliding the ships sideways into the water.

Many of us "driver types" took one look at the high flat sides of the HEALY and left the seating area for higher ground. At the appropriate moment the HEALY slid into the river, it's high flat side pushing out many tons of water, which came rushing back to submerge the entire reviewing area. Most of the spectators became sick after swallowing New Orleans Mississippi River water...one spectator, an elderly lady, was smashed by a large piece of floating wood and later died.

But what do us "drivers" from the real world know?

69 posted on 12/02/2006 7:21:02 AM PST by CWOJackson
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To: Quick Shot
Oh, I forgot to mention...the same people are working on the replacements for the High Endurance Cutters, the largest ships in the fleet.

I retired at the right time.

70 posted on 12/02/2006 7:24:57 AM PST by CWOJackson
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