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Climate Change Sceptics Lose Vital Argument
New Scientist ^ | 11-29-2006 | Zeeya Merali

Posted on 11/29/2006 2:23:37 PM PST by blam

Climate change sceptics lose vital argument

29 November 2006
From New Scientist Print Edition.
Zeeya Merali

The "hockey stick" graph, which shows a rapid rise in world temperatures over recent decades, has been both poster child for the dangers of human- induced global warming and prime target for climate change sceptics. They cite an anomaly in the graph - it does not record a dip in temperature between 1200 and 1850 - as reason to ditch the whole thing. Now new data may help explain why the graph does not record the "little ice age".

Ocean currents in the North Atlantic, dominated by the Gulf Stream, usually keep winter temperatures in western Europe mild by carrying warm water north from the tropics towards Europe and heating the westerly winds travelling from North America. Climate scientists have suspected that a weak Gulf Stream may have caused the little ice age, but until now there has been no direct evidence for this theory.

Jean Lynch-Stieglitz at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta and her colleagues calculated the strength of the Gulf Stream during the little ice age by looking at marine fossils in sediment cores taken from the Straits of Florida. Ocean circulation is driven by variations in water density caused by differences in temperature and salinity. These variations also affect the ratio of oxygen isotopes in marine fossil shells. By measuring these isotope ratios, the team calculated that the Gulf Stream was 10 per cent weaker during the little ice age (Nature, vol 444, p 601).

(Excerpt) Read more at newscientist.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: argument; change; climate; vital

1 posted on 11/29/2006 2:23:39 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Moreover, the cooling that resulted was confined mainly to the northern hemisphere, says Lynch-Stieglitz - which indicates it was a regional effect. Michael Mann at Pennsylvania State University in University Park, who constructed the hockey stick graph,

But it doesn't show up in Mann's interpretation of proxies for North America either, even where the cooling was clearly in effect.

2 posted on 11/29/2006 2:27:00 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: blam

The equations the researcher used to produce the "Hockey stick" do so no matter what data points are used. The HS graph has been thoroughly debunked numerous times by legitimate climatologists, who weren't attacking it just because it didn't reflect the little ice age, but because its whole methodology is wrong.


3 posted on 11/29/2006 2:27:51 PM PST by Little Pig (Is it time for "Cowboys and Muslims" yet?)
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To: blam
Climate Change Sceptics Lose Vital Argument

How is the argument lost? Just because they have some sketchy proof that supports their argument, hardly settles it. The radical climate change 'scientists' tend to brush off any criticism with the flimsiest of proof.

4 posted on 11/29/2006 2:34:13 PM PST by Always Right
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To: Little Pig
The equations the researcher used to produce the "Hockey stick" do so no matter what data points are used.

Including when you take the data from the middle and put it at the end and further randomly shuffle its sequence.

5 posted on 11/29/2006 2:35:18 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: blam
Climate Change Snake Oil Salesman Sceptics Lose Vital Argument


As it should be.
6 posted on 11/29/2006 2:35:35 PM PST by Issaquahking (Trust can't be bought)
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To: lepton
But it doesn't show up in Mann's interpretation of proxies for North America either...

"Proxies" - another word for "models"?

7 posted on 11/29/2006 2:35:43 PM PST by secretagent (trying on the neo-conservative hat)
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To: Little Pig
My understanding is that there is a critical error in the computation the computer uses to create the climate model and that even when its developer was informed of th error, he continued to promote it.
8 posted on 11/29/2006 2:36:16 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: secretagent
"Proxies" - another word for "models"?

Proxies are datasets that represent other data. A typical one is tree-ring widths being used as a proxy for temperature. Unfortunately, tree ring width responds not only to temperature, but rainfall (water in the soil), relative humidity, CO2 levels, vermin outbreaks, blights, mineral availibility changes, cloudiness/overhanging trees, as well as other things. Some of Mann's proxy data is composed only of a couple of trees. He by the way didn't derive the data, but claims that he came up with new ways to statistically treat it so as to derive patterns that weren't clear before. He is not a statistician.

9 posted on 11/29/2006 2:44:00 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: blam

The HS also leaves out the heat wave about 1000 years ago.


10 posted on 11/29/2006 2:47:43 PM PST by narby
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To: secretagent
"Proxies" - another word for "models"?

This is a basic term in the debate. A proxy is any natural measurement that substitutes for the direct measurement of temperature in the time before weather records were kept with thermometers, which is only about the last 150 years. Tree rings and fossil distribution are examples of proxies.

11 posted on 11/29/2006 2:48:10 PM PST by BlazingArizona
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
My understanding is that there is a critical error in the computation the computer uses to create the climate model and that even when its developer was informed of th error, he continued to promote it.

Even more than that, the datasets used were selected by computer processing that searched for a pattern, then used in unbalanced ways (Bristlecone/foxtail data that gives them 390 times the weight as other data sets that he claims also show the same thing, but which when removed so no hockeystick pattern).

An NAS study noted that some of the important proxy studies that were used also have apparently no record of how they were collected or where from, and the original data from which the proxy sequences were derived were not archived, so no checks can be made for their accuracy either.

A consistant theme that has been discovered is that the "peer review" in climate science studies has never involved checking the math. When MacIntyre and McKitrick asked to see the information that was forwarded by various "peer-reviewed" journals, more than one editor claimed that no one had *ever* asked for the data so that the math could be checked (citing various times they'd been editor, including some over 20 years), or to determine if the processes described in the paper were in fact what duplicable. Who "checks the math"? Basically just associates of Mann and Jones.

12 posted on 11/29/2006 2:57:49 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: BlazingArizona; lepton

Thanks professors!

proxy = "direct measurement substitute"


13 posted on 11/29/2006 3:15:49 PM PST by secretagent
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To: lepton
Even more than that, the datasets used were selected by computer processing that searched for a pattern, then used in unbalanced ways to prove the pattern.
14 posted on 11/29/2006 3:32:18 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: blam

I want to see a year by year (or better) plot of CO2 concentration vs absolute temperature and the amount of correlation between the two. This is what the current argument amounts to, but the data are never shown. They could even try some data time shifting in case there is a lag between the high CO2 and the high temps. Of course if the temps lead the CO2, well they have a lot of 'splainin' to do.


15 posted on 11/29/2006 3:45:05 PM PST by Paladin2 (Islam is the religion of violins, NOT peas.)
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To: Paladin2

Just go ahead and establish a climate department to guarantee employment for all these dems.


16 posted on 11/29/2006 4:45:42 PM PST by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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