[ArtyFO]

I think the problem is the fact that the cops were UNDERCOVER cops, dressed in mufti, i.e. dressed like hoodlums. Who can tell if you're being hijacked or not. Traffic stops need to be done by UNIFORMED cops dressed like policemen with their cap and uniform visible to the driver.

[jwatzzzzz]

"I think the problem is the fact that the cops were UNDERCOVER cops, dressed in mufti, i.e. dressed like hoodlums. Who can tell if you're being hijacked or not. Traffic stops need to be done by UNIFORMED cops dressed like policemen with their cap and uniform visible to the driver."

Good Point

[Bonaparte]

"I think the problem is the fact that the cops were UNDERCOVER cops, dressed in mufti, i.e. dressed like hoodlums. Who can tell if you're being hijacked or not. Traffic stops need to be done by UNIFORMED cops dressed like policemen with their cap and uniform visible to the driver."

As I understand the NY Post article, there was one undercover cop initially, who showed his badge and ordered the driver to turn off the car and those inside the car to show their hands. There was no compliance and the driver floored the car toward the undercover cop. Then back-up arrived. Whether those back-up officers were in or out of uniform is not stated in the article. At least, not as far as I can tell.

[Gideon Reader]

How about in an "Officer Bill" or "Officer Friendly" outfit?

Cool. Hat and all. Maybe one of those nifty fluorescent orange or lime green vests. And a whistle. Don't forget the whistle.
And white gloves. And, and, a BIG sign with illuminated runners messages, like on the bottom of a TV news cast, saying: Please do not attempt to strike the nice officer with your moving vehicle. It is dangerous and may cause injury. Have a nice day. NYPD. We serve and protect."

Oh yes. Silly me.
This was not a traffic stop was it?
No. It was not.
It was the operational action at the culmination of a covert surveillance by plainclothes investigators or Anti crime units of a suspect premises, where a past predisposition towards firearms, alcoholic beverage and drug violations have previously taken place, that apparently provided sufficient probable cause, to initiate the surveillance.

I have 34 years of professional LE experience behind me, and have conducted not less than a hundred, probably a hundred and fifty, maybe more (I forget)surveillances of exactly this sort, some of which developed into enforcement activity. many with weapons drawn, much, MUCH fewer with any shooting performed, thankfully none with lives lost.
I have never had a traffic officer assist, especially not in the wee hours of the morning, when good shift working traffic officers are home in bed. Usually at most a raid jacket is worn(if there is time to put it on)and generally just the shield/badge/star, etc.worn on it's chain, lanyard or clip.
Loud voices identifying ones self as a law enforcement officer id the norm. Not doing so is the unusual. Without smacking the horse no longer breathing, we need to wait for the final result of the Shooting Team and the emergence of the facts of this case. All of the facts. Just the facts Maam. As Sgt.Joe Friday would say.

[Neidermeyer]

I think the problem is the fact that the cops were UNDERCOVER cops, dressed in mufti, i.e. dressed like hoodlums. Who can tell if you're being hijacked or not. Traffic stops need to be done by UNIFORMED cops dressed like policemen with their cap and uniform visible to the driver.

---

Amen! If I was stalked by people that looked like hoodlums when leaving a club early in the morning I might myself make a comment about getting my gun (the catalyst behind this event) and I damn well would not believe anyone claiming to be a cop just on his say so ... This is NYC , it is virtually impossible to run someone over unless that person purposely puts themselves in your path, cars accelerate slowly and are NOT maneauverable compared to a person on the ground, there are plenty of cars and phone poles to jump behind ,,, at 4am you point a gun at me when I know at that point I haven't done anything that would get the interest of a rational cop and anything could happen ,,, as it did here. I still don't see what the cops were attempting to accomplish for the public good...

[photodawg]

Traffic stops need to be done by UNIFORMED cops dressed like policemen with their cap and uniform visible to the driver.



''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

This wasn't a traffic stop. It was an undercover operation and an attempted getaway by the suspects.

[vaudine]

Hey! I don't think this was a "traffic stop". Undercover cops; bad, drug ridden neighborhood, nightclub and booze; drunks going home and muddled?

But when the driver aimed that car--it was a bigger bullet than a .45,.38 or whatever NY cops carry. Agreed, too many bullets, but take a speeding car aimed at you and an automatic weapon and you have the makings of mayhem.

Too bad all around.
Of course it is a free country, but what a lousy idea for the bridegroom to be drinking it up in a strip joint TILL 4 AM the night before his nuptials.

vaudine

[Centurion2000]

I think the problem is the fact that the cops were UNDERCOVER cops, dressed in mufti, i.e. dressed like hoodlums. Who can tell if you're being hijacked or not. Traffic stops need to be done by UNIFORMED cops dressed like policemen with their cap and uniform visible to the driver.

I pray that no undercover cop ever tries to stop me in this same situation because I WILL open fire.

[photodawg]

Traffic stops need to be done by UNIFORMED cops dressed like policemen with their cap and uniform visible to the driver.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

are you serious?? it wasn't a traffic stop. They were fleeing the scene of an arrest. The cops were trying to arrest them for activity inside the club that gave them probable cause. This wasn't a traffic stop.