First Comes Junior In a Baby Carriage (4 in 10 Births by Single Moms)

MSNBC Newsweak ^ | 6 Dece,ber 2--6 | Debra Rosenberg and Pat Wingert

[shrinkermd]

....More American women than ever are putting motherhood before matrimony. New data released by the Centers for Disease Control show that nearly four in 10 U.S. babies were born outside of marriage in 2005—a new high. These unwed moms aren't all teens—last year teen pregnancies fell to their lowest levels in 65 years. Some—like 44-year-old Mary Lee MacKichan, who used a gay friend as a sperm donor—are professional, older women who want to have babies before their biological clocks run out, but most are low-income twentysomethings. (Unwed births among 30- to 44-year-olds are up 17 percent since 1991; among those 25 to 29, they're up 30 percent.) And some 40 percent of those moms aren't going it alone—they're cohabiting, at least for a while. That's creating a major shift in what a generation of children are coming to call a family. "Marriage is still alive and well, but it has a lot of competition," says Wellesley College sociologist Rosanna Hertz, author of "Single by Chance, Mothers by Choice."

Ironically, sociologists say, marriage may be on the decline precisely because it has become so idealized. People expect more from marriage than they did a century ago, when it was mainly a practical arrangement to provide financial stability for women and a place to raise children. "Now it's not only love and romance but also self-fulfillment and personal growth," says Pamela Smock, professor of sociology at the University of Michigan. Since there's no longer much of a stigma attached to getting pregnant outside of marriage, many couples have replaced "shotgun weddings" with "shotgun cohabitations

[Accygirl]

Oh, I like geeky science nerds as long as they aren't forty and still living in Mom's basement. I'd prefer a geeky guy with glasses over a hot Starbucks barista any day... One has a plan for his life (being an engineer or scientist) and the other works for Starbucks. I care nothing for looks; I do care about drive and having an actual career.

Frankly, many of the thirty-something single teachers my mom knows at school have given up looking for hot doctor and lawyer and are marrying a science nerd. These guys might be considered "top tier," but they are way more desirable than Vinny the oil change guy at Jiffy Lube.

[Accygirl]

Including you it seems...

[stainlessbanner]

The attitude that mechanics and enlisted guys are unworthy is disgusting. I don't know if college or some uppity societal circles promote this behavior, but it is really unclassy.

When it comes down to it - degrees and 6-figure salaries don't mean squat. Some of the most interesting folks I know are missionaries, wrench-turners, cowboys, and volunteers.

[Cogadh na Sith]

Oh, snap!

So really, once you have this Great and Rewarding VP job you are destined for, who is going to raise your poor kid?

Somebody else. Probably an illegal....

Get your great great job *snicker* and Be Fulfilled by it *snicker, snicker*, just don't drag some poor little kid into your selfish dream.

[Accygirl]

Umm... Perhaps if you spend time being the grammar police (Gee I didn't know that typos were that important on an anonymous message board.) and more time making actual points, I might even engage you on them... Frankly, I believe that the advice I was given in college is pretty sound; however, since you've likely been in the same dead end job for twenty plus years, you wouldn't know anything about it..

[Accygirl]

No, I believe that husbands and wives should share in household chores... Frankly, no man in his right mind would want to eat my cooking.

[Cogadh na Sith]

No, I believe that husbands and wives should share in household chores...

While you are both working 60hr/week High Powered jobs? With probably an hour-each-way commute?

Riiiiiiiight......

So that's not viable. Reality doesn't care what you 'believe'. Now what?

Use some of those outstanding problem-solving skills that got you into a top-tier B-school: Who's gonna raise your kid(s)?

[workerbee]

Come on, where's your sense of humor? I'm just saying, when you preen about your MBA, and then use improper grammar, it just kind of devalues your argument. It's just something to consider.

Why is it important for you to be with a man who makes "significantly" more than you do?

[Accygirl]

"Yes, and there are burned out MD's and lawyers wishing they'd had time to get to know their kids, or wondering why their wife had an affair."

I don't think that those men are going to be thinking, "I wish I worked at Walmart for eight bucks an hour." There's a happy medium between working too much that your wife has an affair and working too little that you are living in the poor house..

"The key question to my mind is if they *started out* that way, or gave up over other things; and for that matter, if they had the wherewithall to aspire to much more than that."

Both of these options strike me as reasons why a man might not be good marriage material... Either he gave up on a dream or he's a slacker with no dreams to begin with.

"Tell you what, I'll trade you on that one; if you agree to hold it against trophy wives who trade on nothing more than good looks (lots of those in Scottsdale) when they could have barely made it to assistant fry chef if not for trading sex for a man's money."

I have nothing but disgust for blonde trophy wives... But at least they had some sort of aspiration of upward mobility.

"This is very much a function of *which* field you are in, which field is "hot" at the moment, and the general economy. Many of the electrical engineers who were hot stuff in the 80's are over the hill now, since they solved the basic problems business needed. Similarly, there is currently a great shortage of pharmacists, after an entire generation of female pharmacists dropped out of the field to do the mommy thing."

Of course, fields get hot and cold, especially technical fields. There's lots of computer guys who lost their jobs and phony millions when the bubble popped and Wall Street started to worry itself with actual financial results...

"These things come and go in waves--even MBAs (middle managers) were dismissed in droves in the 1980's."

Which is why you interview for new positions and look for new jobs (even outside the company every two to three years). Companies have no loyalty to their employees, why should employees have loyalty to the companies...

"And I remember a time in which those who jumped jobs every year were viewed as "unstable" and passed over for plum assignments. Not the case now, but again, some things go in and out of fashion."

A year is probably too soon and would still get some of that remarks... Two to three years is a fair amount of time in a job I believe.

"Did you notice some of your fiercest detractors were women?"

I know, and it makes me sad. I'm glad my mother didn't have a similar view of womanhood and spent her time helping me ace English Lit rather than teaching me how to perfect my pot roast.

I believe when confronted with someone who disagrees with a strongly held position, it's only natural to get angry about it.. I'm sure that a middle aged woman who enjoys being a housewife doesn't get why all women don't want to be housewives...

"The problem is not that you choose a career; it is that you appear to be so cavalierly dismissing so many other things out of hand in order to chase that career; without even stopping to consider the *possibility* that you may be costing yourself other opportunities (possibly irrevocably) in the meantime."

Yep, I'd prefer to not flush sixteen years of education down the toilet.. I also hate cooking, and I knew lots of nasty PTA mommies growing up and have no desire to drink coffee and plan fundraisers with that type of women.

[Cogadh na Sith]

I'm glad my mother didn't have a similar view of womanhood and spent her time helping me ace English Lit rather than teaching me how to perfect my pot roast.

How did she spend all her time doing that if she was a highly educated career woman?

[TruthWillWin]

The legacy of LBJ.

[Jotmo]

Oh, there's many posters here who are against women getting college degrees and having jobs.

Flat out lie. Name one who said anything remotely like that.

What people here take exception to here is not your education, but your unrealistic expectation that you don't have to make a choice regarding career and family/kids. Yes, it's unrealistic. You'll learn that when you mature.

Another poster summed it up nicely. You sound very young. I'm sure that no amount of argument will sway you in your opinions, but you must understand how you sound to us older married people with kids. (4 myself) My 8 year old son likes to tell me of all the things he'll do when he grows up. Astronaut, pilot, fireman, policeman, build skyscrapers, ad infinitum. And of course I tell him that would be great, and he'd be wonderful at all those, and he can be anything he wishes to be.

That's kind of how you sound to us. Lots of grand ideas about how career, family marriage and kids will all work out for you.. The only difference here is that while my sons ambitions are born form the unrealistic enthusiasm of childhood and can have very little affect on his actual future, you are actually contemplating bringing a child into this fantasy world, without a father, if you can't find the right guy.

A woman planning to be a single mom is the pinnacle of selfishness. All things being equal, a child is best raised by a father AND a mother. That is indisputable. And to intentionally have a child NOT under the best circumstance simply because you want it now, and don't want to wait or do what is necessary to create that situation is exactly that. Pure selfishness. Having children is about sacrifice. And the two are mutually exclusive.

And your caviler attitude about a fathers importance, and your overall opinion of many of the men on this board, as displayed by many baseless comment's like the one above, speaks volumes to those of us with the "life experience" that you claim to find so desirable a quality. Except, it seems, when we're trying to inject some reality into your delusions, before you bring another person into it without giving them a choice in the matter.

[Accygirl]

"It's about timing. You can't have children when you are older. I highly recommend having children before 30 because the chances of having miscarriages or fertility problems increases. (I had 3 micarriages before I had my first child at 31.) "

It's about timing for me as well... As a women, getting an MBA and being pregnant/ having small children don't work well together. Women are still required to put their career aspirations on hold to care for their husbands and children, while men don't have to make the same sacrifice.

"If you decide to have children then do it in your late 20s early 30s and stay home with them when they are young. When they go to school, there is plenty of time to work and do your own thing. "

I work in a female heavy department, and none of my coworkers who has gotten pregnant has been able to stay at home with their children. Most families need both incomes... Moreover, having a five/ six year gap in your work record is going to make it pretty hard for you to jump into the workforce. I've already worked in an entry level job; I chose not to work in another entry level job when I'm in my mid-thirties.

"If you can't do this, then don't have children. Women should be respected if they chose not to have children. I think Condi Rice is a great example of this. "

So basically women who don't want to spend their time making pot roast shouldn't get to have kids??? And this is fair how exactly??

I greatly respect Condi Rice, but she comes from the Baby Boomer Generation in which women could either have careers or have children, not both. Most women in my generation want both and believe that they should have both.

[Accygirl]

Ummm... let's see, perhaps at night... on the weekends??? My dad helped me with my geometry homework... So there goes that theory.

My mom is a teacher, not a corporate lady, but I'm glad that she had higher aspirations for her life than making pot roast and ironing my dad's boxers.

[Accygirl]

I'd hope that both parents (or the single parent) would cut back on work and perhaps move closer to their jobs (less of a commute).

[unspun]

Why? Because people are waiting to get married. I'm probably going to be smited by God then because I'm going to get a MBA degree before I even think about getting married (which'll put me at perhaps twenty-eight if I even find a good match).

No.

Because you choose to fornicate, of course (if you're putting yourself in the place of women who are apt to have babies outside of marriage).

Sin is called "sin" for many reasons -- many consequences that are harmful. Of course that's the way it is. It is disobeying God. Makes sense, eh?

[HitmanLV]

I'd never consider a single mom for a mate. Which works out fine, since most single moms probably wouldn't ever consider me for a mate.

See, everyone's happy this way! ;-)

[KantianBurke]

Thank you for writing that. To be honest, however obnoxious the girl's comments are, its somewhat troubling that it took almost 160 posts before someone remarked how crass such an attitude is. On FR! A very pro troops website all the while in the imidst of a war!

[Accygirl]

"Flat out lie. Name one who said anything remotely like that."

Would you like me to gather all the posts? There's people on this board who truly believe that women are second class citizens and should stay in the kitchen. I feel that it's my job to provoke them a bit.

"What people here take exception to here is not your education, but your unrealistic expectation that you don't have to make a choice regarding career and family/kids. Yes, it's unrealistic. You'll learn that when you mature."

Yes, how dare a woman think that she should be able to have both a career and a family. According to quite a few posters here, I can either A. become a shriveled up spinster or B. be a 1950s housewife. I chose to have both a career and children and don't see any conflict.

"Another poster summed it up nicely. You sound very young. I'm sure that no amount of argument will sway you in your opinions, but you must understand how you sound to us older married people with kids."

Umm, okay... Thinking realistically about my marriage prospects is like wanting to be an astronaut. (BTW, how do you know that your son won't grow up to be an astronaut?)

"A woman planning to be a single mom is the pinnacle of selfishness. All things being equal, a child is best raised by a father AND a mother. That is indisputable. And to intentionally have a child NOT under the best circumstance simply because you want it now, and don't want to wait or do what is necessary to create that situation is exactly that. Pure selfishness. Having children is about sacrifice. And the two are mutually exclusive."

I don't want a child now... What I pointed out is that if I'm not married by my early thirties I might contemplate it. That's eight years away.. I'm applying to MBA programs right now and grad school and babies don't mix very well..

"And your caviler attitude about a fathers importance, and your overall opinion of many of the men on this board, as displayed by many baseless comment's like the one above, speaks volumes to those of us with the "life experience" that you claim to find so desirable a quality. Except, it seems, when we're trying to inject some reality into your delusions, before you bring another person into it without giving them a choice in the matter."

I don't want to marry a man with no real career aspirations; I don't think that this is too much to ask for. Perhaps, if Walmart cashiers and McDonalds burger flippers are offended by someone saying something that is true (i.e. women find such men unattractive), then perhaps it hit a nerve.

[Accygirl]

Let me tell you a little secret... The only single women my age that I know who haven't sinned in that way already are nuns..