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" The least we can do is support them in their heroic effort from the safe confines of our Lazy Boys." Precisely what I see in this thread. several egotistical blow hards who do not deal in reality. More casualties is TWO is more than ONE etc. Add to the US deaths (and over 20000 wounded)the Muslim deaths fostered by our temerity (as in timid) in dealing with IRAN and the numbers are substantially larger than the 3000+ deaths of US Soldiers seen as a paltry few by the Lazy Boy Patriots in this thread... just judging by the intro and the yeah throw them into the meat grinder crowd.

Win or get out. The Iraqis have NOT stepped up to the plate. The IRAQI Police and Military are now part of the problem because they are not part of the solution. Yes, we have some doing well and others who are treacherous. Wonder why there are so many Generals (other than the Democrat Clarke) who disagree with the "stay the course". Heck, even the President no longer say "Stay the Course".

Time to realize that the Conservatives are PO'd at the War as are others, no not the Liberals but the new so called Blue Dog Democrats (I know they are still DIM in many ways). But I think some of you need to wake up, it ain't Normandy 2006. We were fighting a country then, not an ideology; understand what we are fighting and deal with it. For a few references, consider http://www.conservativeusa.org/ which states Bush has demoralized Conservatives - maybe some of the posters in this thread are out of step with REAL conservatism. I know some of the articles do not mention pulling out which is not what I said.

Pat Buchanan cites RUMSFELD at http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=6812 as "...Is President Bush willing to settle for less than we all thought? So it would seem. For it is difficult to draw any other conclusion from the just-completed Rumsfeld mission." Sounds contrary to the Long Hard Slog bravado.

I was going to post more, but the few contras I encountered are only interested in their opinion as opposed to reality and not in touch with what other Conservatives believe. Then again, we are with the thread or a traitor.

BTW, RANGEL's idea of a draft may come to fruition for no other reason than that the MSM is diminishing enlistments, ref: http://www.therant.us/ a CONSERVATIVE RANT!

As far as having draftees guarding your back in IRAQ, remember the D-Day you guys cited, well those were draftees. If the undisciplined draftees in Viet Nam were dealt with properly, there would be no need for worry or a need for an all volunteer Army. Draft them and ask for volunteers to go to IRAQ, send the rest to watch posts in Alaska, Afghanistan, the Borders etc .

Win or get out. The Iraqis have NOT stepped up to the plate.

I beg to differ. Each time we hear of another suicide bomber taking out 30, 40 or 50 iraqis, how often is it outside the recruting office for their Military or Police? And still, they keep signing up with the constant threat of death from terrorists who would enslave them all.

They have not reached the point to stand on their own just yet, but they keep coming.

Those draftees, on D-Day, were CANNON FODDER and if today's MSM were to report on D-Day, it would have been screaming about what an utter and complete failure it was.

Ever hear about the German WOLF PACK, after we had supposedly won in WW II?

How long did it take to make Germany ( well, West Germany; the Russians had East Germany and we all know what a "great" job the USSR did with that bit of land ), a "civilized", Western nation, that had once had a democracy, CIVIL again? And what about Japan, a country that had NEVER had a democracy at all, into one, once WW II was over and done with?

Please don't even attempt to play games with history, here on FR. It will profit you nothing but scorn, derision, and contempt.