A Message to All the Cut and Run Freepers Currently Polluting Free Republic

Friday, November 24, 2006 | Kristinn

[cva66snipe]

Oh...forget it...there you go...20/20 hindsight again. I won't debate with someone that wants to Monday morning quarterback ...back 6 YEARS AGO!!!

It was an act of war as are Yemens responses since that time.

[Alas Babylon!]

What does Bush understand about war? Not a single thing. What did Rummy know? Not a single thing. Congress? Many went to war but had poor teachers to guide them except those of the WW2 years who are now for the most part out of congress.

Oh BS, man! Not a single thing, eh? What gall. Rummy was Sec Def in Ford's Admin. He was also a carrier aviator in the 1950s. But what freaking difference does it make? I'm getting real tired of this attitude that so many have--to wit--They are the ONLY ones who have knowledge, and everyone who disagrees with them is a total moron. Also, the idea that those who haven't serve have no say is condesending. Finally, our elected leaders--civilians--who often know nothing of war--are our commanders. That's part of the Constitution we took an oath to.

Hyperbolic statements and insults do nothing--NOTHING-for the debate here except make enemies out of people who should be allies!!!!

Taking assassinations off the table was a direct result of the drive by media spilling national secrets of how we tried to stop Castro and then a democratic Congress, fresh off dispatching Nixon, training their guns on Ford. I remeber well the press making a hissy fit over it and the dems promising to investigate and stop this. You make it sound like Ford and Rumsfeld just made it up out of whole cloth.

Once again, the alliance of the dems and the DBM found its target. It has been ever so since Vietnam. Now they are targeting our efforts to combat terrorism.

You simply are not going to get a war of total extermination in the Middle East from any political leader in the USA. No matter how much you wish for it, it's not going to come to fruition.

Why don't you run for office wherever you're from, and let folks know that if elected, you'll fight the Muslims like Joshua in the Old Testement, ensuring that every man, woman, child and animal of every city, town and village we capture will be put to death by US troops. I'm sure no one will bring out pictures of Nazis to protest you.

[cva66snipe]

So- you think we should be in Yemen, not Iraq? You're the first one that heard that is a proponent of this.

I've said it a long time. bin Ladden has a Yemen history. Yemen should have been the first stop. Iraq? It should have been a Pentagon directed covert OP with a drone searching for Saddams hide. His nuke program? Lot of Freepers forget that Israel pretty much eneded it for us.

[Defender2]

You start with the source that is really festering the problem. Remember, Libya surrendered it's WMD programs after we took out Sadam's regime. Take out the source of the problem and the rest will stop as they see what happened to their instigating leader, and fall like dominoes.

[wtc911]

We're getting enough volunteers now that, should they be relieved of non-combat or near-the-front roles, they should be sufficient. Letting draftees know that there is very small chance that they would be 'in harm's way' might make it a bit more palatable to the country.

[Sam Ketcham]

Thanks for your support. we all seem to agree. Listened to a right wing radio program this AM - my kind of politics. The lady announcer was interviewing a government official and stated the media is misstating the fact about the military meeting its recruitment goals. In essence he didn't say "Yes, we are meeting the goals." but rather "We meet them with difficulty each year". Figure fudging IMHO.

The official cited the cost saving of $4 Billion a year by having a volunteer force. Dollars aren't every thing as Congress did demonstrate and will continue to demonstrate in their spending. IMHO, there is a need for civilian responsibility, not letting the volunteers go to get killed while the rest play.

Other than the few who seem to be conservatives, pro-military, pro US, and rational instead of Rah Rah, the rest need to watch these vids and see how they feel. http://www.iwo.com:80/heroes.htm

[Txsleuth]

Then it is Clinton you have the beef with not Pres. Bush...and for you to include Pres. Bush in with Pres. Clinton....makes me wanna puke!

[cva66snipe]

There you go with that "I didn't want to go there..." stuff. I don't want to argue the past..

The conditions in post 1032 will you support it or cut and run? Simple question that likely means whether we win or loose to Islam as a nation. I would support it if POTUS and Congress went there how about you?

[Defender2]

fixed your link for you.

http://www.iwo.com:80/heroes.htm

[Sam Ketcham]

"we had to pull out of Nam, when we did? " Not my words, YOURS, hero. We needed to pull out as soon as the military's hands were tied by the Politicians, as they are now. Also, it applied to our FIRST DEFEAT - Korea. Again the Politicians. Keep listening to them and supporting their weak kneed policy and we will have more Americans killed and wounded, some worse than imaginable.

War is a tool of a civilized nation, but once the path is taken it should be fought to fruition without political interference, Once politics enters the equation, the body count is a wast of human life.

[Defender2]

? If you were posting a picture, or print, somehow it got lost in the transmission.

You might want to try to repost it.

[KantianBurke]

Figured you were lying. Quit posting falsehoods. Thanks.

[Sam Ketcham]

Thanks.

[Defender2]

You're Welcome!!!!:-)

D2

:-)

[Tinman]

VERY well said my FRiend.

I've been over here for ten months. In that time, I have found no one (American, Iraqi, or ally) who believes we don't belong here or that we should leave, until the job is done.

Those that want us out, are those who had it good under Saddam. Well, that's just too damn bad.

What we've done and what we continue to do is justified and necessary. I'm here as a civilian in direct support of our troops. I'll start worrying when I hear the soldiers say we should get out, not before.

Regards

[Publius]

We are at war.

The Constitution doesn't recognize War and War Lite, only that a state of war exists. Traditionally we have used two different instruments for declaring war. When dealing with a sovereign nation we have used a declaraion of war, and we took it off the books in the treaty that ended the war. When dealing with a non-sovereign, like the Barbary Pirates or al-Quaeda, we used a declaration authorizing the use of force. (That we didn't remove these declarations from the books after the non-sovereign was defeated was simply a matter of legislative sloppiness, and nothing further should be read into that.)

While a declaration of war and a declaration authorizing the use of force are two different instruments of war, they have the same constitutional weight. However, they don’t have the same political weight.

Looking at the two world wars of the 20th Century, once war was declared, Americans banded together to fight the common enemy. Dissent was crushed or severely chastised. But declarations authorizing the use of force have had problematic histories from the invasions of Haiti and Nicaragua in the early 20th Century to Vietnam and the current imbroglio in the Middle East.

During World War II the enemy was an ideology so evil that few could miss the point. Two years before America became involved in the war, the British and Canadians were already fighting, and many Americans took the train across the Canadian border to enlist in the Royal Canadian Air Force. (This is a far cry from those Americans who crossed to Canada during the Vietnam debacle.)

After Pearl Harbor, America launched its first full military mobilization since 1917. The draft had been reinstated a year earlier, and now American males received letters that began, “Greetings from the President.” Few thought of evading the draft, and huge crowds of angry men mobbed recruiting centers to enlist. There were no voices calling the attack “a law enforcement problem”. There were no voices saying that America had brought the attack upon itself because of some flaw in its makeup or policies. There were few who said that such an attack was not sufficient reason to go to war. No anti-war demonstrators ever took to the streets, and if they had, an angry mob would have lynched them before the police could have arrested them. With the 1941 declaration of war, we operated under what I call “World War II Rules”.

• American society and industry underwent full mobilization. Industrial plants manufacturing consumer goods were converted to war plants under full government industrial planning.
• Gasoline was rationed, and a 35 mph national speed limit was enforced. Billboards with the message, “Is this trip really necessary?” were ubiquitous. Posters reminded people that when they drove alone, they were “riding with Hitler.”
• Silk, nylon, rubber and copper were among many materials that were reserved for military use, and those who dabbled in the black market were imprisoned. Foodstuffs were rationed, people were warned not to hoard food and told to report those who did. Catholics had always had meatless Fridays, but now the entire nation had meatless Tuesdays.
• American women planted “victory gardens”, Boy Scouts scavenged metal and rubber “for the war plants,” and people were encouraged to buy war bonds because, “It's bonds or bondage!” (Just try using that slogan in San Francisco today!) On the radio, when American women heard, “Ladies, bring your fat cans down to the corner butcher,” they knew it referred to cans of rendered fat, not oversize buttocks.
• In wartime all news coverage is propaganda. No matter how bad the news from the front, the reassuring voices of Edward R. Murrow, Ed Herlihy and Lowell Thomas explained how this latest setback was merely a bump in the road on “our way to total victory!” All war news was censored. Reporters censored themselves, editors censored reporters, and publishers censored editors. If a publisher prepared to print something that undermined morale or the war effort, the FBI paid a visit.

If we were operating under World War II rules today, things would be different.

• Gasoline rationing would likely be in effect. Money paid to the Saudis for their oil has long trickled into al-Qaeda’s coffers, and the US would become quite choosy as to the sources of its oil. Alaska would be drilled deeply and thoroughly. Posters would appear telling people that when they drove alone, they were “riding with Osama”. Money devoted to highways would be diverted to public transportation on a massive scale.
• War is based on credit, and rather than pass tax cuts the government would raise taxes through the roof to cover the cost of war. War bond campaigns would flood the media.
• Mainstream Media outlets issuing news coverage slanted against the war would receive a visit from the government.
• Those anti-war demonstrators in Oakland who blocked stevedores from loading a naval ammunition ship would be greeted by lead instead of rubber. The survivors would be arrested for treason.
• People who put "No Iraq War" signs in the windows of their homes would be severely ostracized by their neighbors, if not burned out. A similar fate would greet those advertising their beliefs via bumper stickers.
• Certain congressmen and senators would be expelled and then arrested for sedition.
• Most importantly there would be a total military mobilization, but this time conscription would function without deferments. It’s hard to have an anti-war movement when everyone is in uniform. America’s colleges would shut down because there would be no students. (This would have the positive effect of ending the poisoning of the minds of American youth by the mavens of socialism and political correctness.)

While it may make no difference which instrument we use to go to war, we have to establish ground rules. Unfortunately, thanks to a failure of foresight, we are operating under Vietnam Rules. Unless we change this, we are going to lose.

[Sunsong]

If we keep a presence in Iraq over 50 years...why would that necessarily be different than Germany?

Ultimately, the American people decide. We just had one wake-up call election that the voters want change in Iraq. President Bush can defy Congress I guess for a year or so - but then - it's likely - the dems will be given the WH and the Congress and that will be the end of the war in Iraq.

I would rather see us decide how this is resolved and do the right thing than to stubbornly refuse to look at the facts on the ground and continue with a stragegy that is not working..ultimately letting the dems decide what happens because we keep losing elections.

[humblegunner]

bin Ladden has a Yemen history.

Osama bin Laden's (is that who you meant?) mom is from Yemen.

Note: Ladden is not anyone anybody has heard of.
Please enlighten us all, O wise nonspelling one.

[Defender2]

Like your tagline by the way. That would be an interesting matchup.