Posted on 11/24/2006 6:46:08 PM PST by kristinn
I think you are ignoring the goal of the enemy.
Oh I know. I see them bragging when I lurk over there, which I can only do for a few minutes at a time. "I've been a freeper for years" then the next day they slip up and get the zot.
I didn't call you names either. You didn't post the thread.
If you would like to respond to what I said, by all means.
You said, "The Iraqi's themselves should resolve their own internal civil differences. That is the plan."
I have my doubts as to whether the plan can work at this point. I think perhaps (and I know hindsight is 20/20) we expected too much from a country with no history of self-government and factions such as the Sunnis & Shia who've hated each other for years in the very beginning.
What we've done is sort of like trying to teach someone to swim by throwing them in the river - either they swim or they drown, but you're not really sure which outcome you'll get.
You also said, "The politician CIC is responsible for the plan, not "politicians" plural, and not the military."
I don't think the President is totally responsible for all the decisions that have been made, but maybe he was.
I think several of the decisions that have been made have undercut the military's strength, clout, and morale. As stated somewhere upthread, the decision to pull back instead of taking Fallujah the first time was one of these.
We will let the WOT vets sort this out.
They aren't as dumb as Kerri and his hate GW Buddies on FR think they are.
Exactly so.
There's one over there called Islamic_Cincinatti who's always bragging about going to FR and "mocking the neocons" claiming to be the parent of a veteran.
Makes me sick!
CUTANDRUNFLEEPERS
You weren't here for Elian, Terri Schaivo, and half a dozen others?
I agree that discussion is a good thing. I just don't think this thread was written to facilitate discussion. Even the title is written as a insult.
You may choose to call it a lie. It was a direct quote from Lugar. The neocons pushed so hard to stay in Iraq after the mission was accomplished, that now there will be talks with Iran and Syria. Gee, I wonder why this is not Front Page News here in the US? Those that demand to "stay the course" are advocating that We The People negotiate peaceful terms with Shiite Hezbullah. Think about that for a while. It amounts to a surrender.
That's just low...but read my tagline.
can we believe this kind of account ? remember the Baghdad school invasion of several months ago? The fact that Iraqi "stringers" are doing a lot of the eye-witness reporting, etc. If you need me to,and haven't seen the rather prominent threads on these themes, I can look them up.
It also kept us from going into Fallujah the first time. The government has been thwarting our policies for a couple of years now.
LOL...
Maybe you've left by now, owf, but my comment to you is that most, not all, but most of the ones who badmouth the Iraq war here are on the same track against the Commander in Chief. If you made a list going back a ways and track them side by side, most, not all, would be found badmouthing the President before they've now been found badmouthing the Iraq War.
First, the MSM and Dems tore him down non-stop, then were joined by Buchananites or Libertarians or Constitutionalists (Party) or Tancredoites or you name their slot. Successfully tearing him down, they are now going after the War in Iraq. Claiming they worry about the troops and casualities and political correctness and the impossibility of Democracy in Islam, etc. is a bit of slight of hand. The concerns are legitimate points of questioning and debate, but when you dig down deep you find deep antipathy to George W Bush for a host of reasons, followed by, now, a stated deep antipathy to the Iraq War.
Oh, they say they don't mean that, really, they're just against the way things have been going and they don't like future prospects. But the end is the same, they track with the trash Bush, trash the war Left. Are they ALL, trolls? Absolutely not. Just FReepers who for the most part strongly dislike and disrespect the President.
I have no current family in the military, unlike you, mystery and others. My dad served in WWII, stateside, in a specialty that was narrow and hard to fill, at an AirCorps training facility. My uncle served in the Pacific and his ship was hit by a Kamikazi Pilot, though it and he survived. I have second cousins who were Navy Seabees. A great Uncle who served in WWI in Europe under Gen. Pershing. A dear, dear friend who flew in Vietnam, who died in '03 of heart failure. I understand how you thrived on the support here for the War and the troops, and how let down you feel about continuing here.
I hope we outlast 'em, ohio. But that's just me.
It's only been three-and-a-half years--only six months since the freely elected government in Iraq was formed. In that time, what has been called a mini-Marshall Plan of construction and reconstruction has come to fruition. The Iraqis have held three national elections, they have held numerous local elections, fourteen out of eighteen Iraq provinces are relatively peaceful and stable.
Bears repeating. The whole article bears repeating.
I'm SO SICK of armchair generals and surrender monkeys telling me I don't know what I'm talking about because they'd rather believe the media than someone who is right here.
Thank you for posting this and thank you for your clear, unfiltered observations!
If the hostility toward the mission in Iraq is merely the emotional puffing up of the chests of Bush haters here on FR (emboldened by the RAT victory in November), mixed with well placed trolls, then it will most likely pass.
If there has been a sea change and there is widespread lack of support of the military (i.e. the mission that THEY believe in), then I don't think I can stick around.
But as I said........wait and see.
Lugar did not say that President Bush would have the talks personally. "I am among those who advocates talks between our government, Damascus and Tehran after a certain point," is what Lugar said. President Bush is the Chief Executive of our government, so therefore draw your own conclusion.
Let me slow it down a little more for you. My perception is what it is. It's based on your words, not something made up out of whole cloth. As usual, you duck, cover, weave, bob and do anything and everything to dodge the questions put to you. YOU have no credibility. Leave you alone? So you think you should be able to post unmolested, no matter how bizzare your claim, and not be called out to prove it. When someone/anyone dare question you on it, you want to be left alone. Kinda hard to do when you post on a open forum. I'm attracted to liberal ranters, what can I say? Blackbird.
No I understand the enemies goal very well. You need to convince Bush and our other leaders. You see our enemy understands what they Bush and others do not. They understand absolutes of war and fight accordingly then some. Thus through the ignorance of our elected leaders they are winning world wide.
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