[MarkL]

The words "defeat" and "debacle" have to be defined pretty far down to apply either of them to the situation in Iraq. But, it appears our enemies are right about us. We just don't have the stomach for anything anymore...

I can't remember the name of the battle, but there was a battle during the Civil War where the Confederacy lost nearly 6000 troops in roughly 2 hours...

These people would have had the US surrendering after Pearl Harbor, after at least a short period of faking support for the war.

Mark

[painter]

I can't remember the name of the battle, but there was a battle during the Civil War where the Confederacy lost nearly 6000 troops in roughly 2 hours...

I think you might the sides here mixed up. The Unoin army got their asses kicked at the first battle of Bull Run. That was the first battle of the war just outside of Washington DC. Lee was stunned when the Union army broke and ran. The Confederate chased the Union army and the civilian spectators back to the edge of town.