Posted on 11/18/2006 5:43:33 PM PST by Dane
Why are you so pissy about everything? Seriously. It could be a debate over pickles on a hamburger and you would turn it into a giant flame fest.
Not pissy about pickles on my hamburgers at all. I do know some have a phobia about pickles on their McDonald's 1/4 lb.ers, and also what does pickles on a hamburger have to do with a broken FDR promise of a road in Swain county?
John / Billybob
Regards, Ivan
LOL, you are killing me here!! I have no idea what the core beliefs of the nazis were. But I do see you have truly run out of valid arguments. Nazis? Come now, surely you can come up with an even better boogeyman. You Republicans are becoming a laugh a minute.
"the victims are entitled to monetary resolution" ??? Do you think the "leaders" in Swain County are the "victims"? I would say the people forced off their land and watched the government break their word about the road are the victims and these victims want the government to simply honor their word.
The road was specified in detail in the contract (The 1943 Agreement). No one, even the treehuggers,do not argue with that.) Sure, things change over time. Do you expect the government to keep its word to you about Social Security? Or,when you get retirement time, some elitest might say, "Things have changed and in our wisdom, you don't deserve the money. Instead, we will build you a statue."
I hate to see quarterbacks as Democrats.
Doug Flutie is a big Hillary! supporter.
Oh didn't you know Hiroshima is in Japan and Japan was a German ally? The history books make it clear that the bomb built with the hydroelectric power from Fontana Dam had a lot to do with the war ending earlier, it could have gone on and on and if you remember, Hitler planned to control the world.
I didn't see 441 S through the Park becoming 4 lane and it gets over 17 million visitors a year. Of course the only ones benefiting from it to make a living are the folks in Tennessee. Of course they don't want our Road to go somewhere, it will take tourism dollars out of their state. Don't you like Tail of the Dragon? I think it's a good road and comes out near Foothills Parkway, a road Tennessee wasn't promised and tourists enjoy. Talk about pork there, it was built with federal dollars, I don't see folks complaining about that pork project.
I guess if you want to talk about Cherokee, fine, the Cherokee are for the Road being built also...all the tribal council endorsed support it and have for years, they recognize it will be another tourist attraction to bring money into the area. They also told the road supporters they believe the government should keep its word. Some have referred to it as another trail of tears. I guess the government can't keep its hands off people's land.
The point is, the government made a binding legal contract and the government should honor its word. This contract was made before that land was turned over to the Park, years after the Park was formed. The people were promised the road because 69,000 acres of their land was taken for the creation of the Dam in in the early 40's. 44,400 acres on the North Shore was not needed and was turned over to the Department of the Interior. The Department of the Interior took on the responsibility of building a tourism road which would bring in tourism dollars (which would make up for all the lost taxes and money from businesses, etc.) to the county and also would fulfill the spoken and written promises made to the former residents. This was called the 1943 Agreement, a legal binding document which the Dept. of Interior acknowledged as such this past year in the Environmental Impact Study (EIS). According to this independent study by an internationally prestigous firm, (Arcadis, from Raleigh, NC) more money would be generated from the road in three years than the $52 million which the politicians would settle for. Also, money generated by the road would be unending, not spent by money hungry politicians.By the way, no where was or is the $52 million promised, some crooked politians urged on by the Sierra Club said they would settle for that.
The road is not supposed to be a road to take you to someplace else. The area itself is a historical and cultural destination. The road would mostly be built on old existing roads and would pass by former homesites, farms, businesses, cemeteries, townsites, etc. These hardy pioneers came in, cut trees, built their homes, schools, churches, and towns. By the way, Tsali's widow was a neighbor to these pioneers. (Tsali was the Cherokee Indian whom history says gave his life so his people could stay in the area.)
This area is rich in history and the road would be a wonderful historical place to visit with your family.
The 600 million projected cost for the road is greatly inflated. A local road construction company which has constructed roads nationally and on federal lands gave an estimate on the road using the actual plans which the feds used and cut the projected cost more than half. Looking at the plans, they found many instances where items were greatly inflated by everyone's criteria.
The $600 million is only another ploy to try to block the road since people will believe it is too costly. The people of Swain County, (who have lived with poverty for the past 60 years and have the highest amount of federally owned land in their county in the state of North Carolina) believe they have given enough and it is time for the government to honor its promise and legal contract.
"...the families aren't going to pony up $600 million..."
How much more should the families have to pay? They gave their ancestral homes, their inheritances, their sons, brothers, fathers, and sweethearts to World War II. If not for WWII, none of this would ever have happened.
Many of the families were given so little for their hundreds of acres of land that they could not pay a decent down payment on an acre or two of land elsewhere. (Their land was considered isolated mountain land and not worth much to the federal evaluators.)
In the southern Appalachians, Swain County, it is the custom to visit graves of loved ones, decorate with flowers and have a religious service. This is still important in the culture of Swain County people and those who had to move out of Swain County to find a place to live.
These families have given enough. It is time for the federal government to pony up to the agreement.
"He's right on this road...."
Heath Shuler is wrong on this issue. He said in Swain County at a football game in 2005 that the road should have been built.
Now he is bought and paid for by radical environmentalists and liberal Democrats. He is singing their song loud and clear. Nancy Pelosi contributed $5,000 to Heath's campaiagn. Mountain values, down the drain, enter San Francisco values.
Do you expect the government to keep its word to you about Social Security?
As a matter of fact no I don't. Another albatross FDR hung around our necks (along with TVA, furthering the War on Drugs, centralization of the economy, the list does go on....). I expect to pay into Social Security to pay for those that have already retired. However, as you say times have changed. If Social Security was shut down tomorrow and I was told I would not receive a single dime I would have no problem with it. You see that's the conservative limited government view. I neither expect nor desire funds from the federal government for anything.
Nor do I expect or want the federal government to fund a dead end road to some old houses or cemetaries in the hopes it will create a museum (of which even more federal dollars will be dumped). This is no better than the road/bridge in Alaska that was 'promised' last year.
A local road construction company which has constructed roads nationally and on federal lands gave an estimate on the road using the actual plans which the feds used and cut the projected cost more than half. Looking at the plans, they found many instances where items were greatly inflated by everyone's criteria.
Oh well that's different isn't it? $300 million vs. $600 million. Still quite a bit more than $52 million. And the road will still lead to a dead end won't it?
The people of Swain County, (who have lived with poverty for the past 60 years
Hmmmm, as has most of Western NC as you well know. Actually it's been far longer than 60 years hasn't it? And still the halfbacks come and build their summer homes don't they? What will this road bring? More tourism? Oh that's good money that is...As someone who worked for a few years over at Cashiers (and even awhile in Canton) that's not the greatest of jobs is it? Macon, Cherokee, Swain, Haywood, all the way to Buncombe are economically depressed areas aren't they? Well except for Cherokee but that's a different story. Talk about being owed something...
and have the highest amount of federally owned land in their county in the state of North Carolina) believe they have given enough and it is time for the government to honor its promise and legal contract.
Oh well that's a different story isn't it? Citizens wanting a road that will lead to nowhere. Hey I want a road in the Cowee Valley to my great-great-great grandfather's gravesite so I don't have to park and walk literally miles with a GPS and a map to find his gravesite. I mean I'm due it aren't I?
Many of the families were given so little for their hundreds of acres of land that they could not pay a decent down payment on an acre or two of land elsewhere. (Their land was considered isolated mountain land and not worth much to the federal evaluators.)
As I said I could tell you stories of my own family but I won't. That's in the past
In the southern Appalachians, Swain County, it is the custom to visit graves of loved ones, decorate with flowers and have a religious service. This is still important in the culture of Swain County people and those who had to move out of Swain County to find a place to live.
Again as it is in Macon County. And noted I walk, I don't have the damn government taking me in a boat to get there. The side of my family that lived up there moved out in the 1920s because it was so depressed. They didn't know about the Great Depression because they had been living it for over 50 years!!
So will I get a check or should I just petition for a couple of yards of this road? You still haven't explained exactly where you want the exit. Hwy 28 or should we just storm over the mountain to hit 73 and I-75?
"Dude, if you're worried abut the hazards of a half-mile journey across a man-made lake in a pontoon boat, you've really got to learn to live a little."
You should take a ride on an old pontoon boat with the water coming over the front so badly all baggage has to be held and the motor conking out in the middle of the lake during a thunder storm and learn a real lesson about life. Especially when you see 80 plus year old salt-of-the-earth people sitting in fear clutching their lunch and flowers for the graves. These are facts. I was there. The Park Service calls this adequate transportation. Do YOu? Suppose this was your grandmother sitting there who was terrified of the water?
The old folks visiting their kin's graves will most likely be dead before the road could be completed. It serves no purpose now and won't bring in enough tourism dollars to justify its construction.
Oh didn't you know? Germany was defeated months before the bomb was dropped. They do still teach V-E Day in the Buncombe County High Schools don't they? ;)
I didn't see 441 S through the Park becoming 4 lane and it gets over 17 million visitors a year. Of course the only ones benefiting from it to make a living are the folks in Tennessee
Yes, please explain to everyone what the increased traffic has done to the local forests
Don't you like Tail of the Dragon? I think it's a good road and comes out near Foothills Parkway, a road Tennessee wasn't promised and tourists enjoy.
Oh I love Tail of the Dragon. Back before it was popular with bikers, I broke the front end on my car going through there. But now I love it because I ride. And increased tourist traffic won't be riders, but yankees in big cars that don't know how to drive in the mountains
I guess if you want to talk about Cherokee, fine, the Cherokee are for the Road being built also...all the tribal council endorsed support it and have for years, they recognize it will be another tourist attraction to bring money into the area. They also told the road supporters they believe the government should keep its word. Some have referred to it as another trail of tears. I guess the government can't keep its hands off people's land.
Oh yes, more people to come by the casino, of course they're for that end. But they don't care what happens to the land west of them do they? Can't have too many people drop by Santa Land and the casino can we?
The road is not supposed to be a road to take you to someplace else. The area itself is a historical and cultural destination. The road would mostly be built on old existing roads and would pass by former homesites, farms, businesses, cemeteries, townsites, etc. These hardy pioneers came in, cut trees, built their homes, schools, churches, and towns. By the way, Tsali's widow was a neighbor to these pioneers. (Tsali was the Cherokee Indian whom history says gave his life so his people could stay in the area.)
As I said, I know the history. Look up the Potts just to the west and down in Macon County. That's one part of my kin. My issue is that there's not a viable exit for this supposed increased traffic that's going to be coming this way is there? Except for 74 back down the road and you'd have to circle around back to it (meaning the possible creation of another bridge across the lake) if you were to loop it. And it would cross back over 28 anyway
"If you can find one."
In reference to "one" being Indian, you should be ashamed of that racist statement!.
The Qualla Boundary of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians is located in Swain County. The descendants of the North Shore pioneers still live in peace with the Cherokee as they did then. MapQuest might help you locate the Cherokee reservation in Swain County, North Carolina, USA.
"...not a viable exit for this road..."
Since you believe you know so many facts, why don't you look up the map of the proposed road and find the exit?
It is clearly marked and easy to read.
Whew boy, you want to keep that govt. paid for road all to yourself, while denying the people of Swain County a similar road.(BTW, that was promosed by FDR for the taking of the familes land).
You warm nancy pelosi's heart with your elitism.
FR provides something called the HTML sandbox which helps you do such things and also teaches you how to do things such as post pictures. Hit the link beloe.
Now he is bought and paid for by radical environmentalists and liberal Democrats. He is singing their song loud and clear. Nancy Pelosi contributed $5,000 to Heath's campaiagn. Mountain values, down the drain, enter San Francisco values.
Typical democrat says one thing to get elected and then when he gets to DC votes the radical leftist pelosi line.
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