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To: Valpal1

There is quite a bit of disagreement about whether he was refusing to leave or not. According to some of the accounts I have seen, this guy was leaving. I question whether they even have the legal authority to kick this guy out. It is state property, he is legally allowed to be in there. The security guard works for the state guarding state property so he must follow their laws.

The guy was under absolutely no legal obligation to present his ID to the police. I don't know the details of California law in this matter but in Iowa where I'm from, the only time I'm required to show ID is when I'm operating a vehicle. Otherwise it is completely legal to refuse to show the police your ID. I do know California doesn't have a law requiring everyone must present their ID.

Where in the hell does removing a nonviolent individual ever require the use of a taser? If he simply goes limp, then drag him out. This use of the taser is done for one purpose and that is to inflict pain upon people. why do you need to tase someone 5 times? He wasn't resisting. He wasn't fighting. He simply wasn't assisting. There is also no legal obligation to assist in your own arrest.

Why did the police also threaten to tase students who demanded names and badge numbers. THe police are required by law to give that information whenever they are asked. Instead, the threatened the students. That indicates quite a bit. It indicates a certain mindset.

I might not know the specifics about this incident but I do know something about our rights with the police. If this kid knew his rights he might have behaved more intelligently but for the most part, the police as far as I can tell was entirely in the wrong. They might be able to get this kid for some petty offense but they can also get the police for a lot more. I hope there are several campus cops on the unemployment line pretty soon. People like them should not have positions of authority.


215 posted on 11/18/2006 9:14:06 PM PST by evilmuppet
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To: evilmuppet

It is not a public library, it is a University library and they have rules. The police were removing him at the request of the library because he refused to follow library rules, one of which is produce University student ID for late night use or leave.

The students sign legal contracts agreeing to abide by university rules when they enroll. The library security officer had every right to have him forcibly removed when he refused to produce his ID.

There are all types of state property that have restricted public use. Just because it is public property does not give every citizen unfettered use.

I would take the media accounts of alleged witness that he was leaving with a grain of salt, IMO. He had plenty of time to leave in the period when the CSO left to call the UCPD and the time they took to arrive.

You might want to familiarize yourself with protestor/agitator tactics because this young man's behavior pretty much follows the textbook for being an agent provocateur.

BTW the campus police are CHP, not rent-a-cops.


216 posted on 11/18/2006 9:40:12 PM PST by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: evilmuppet

Just because the library is "state property" does not mean anybody has a right to be there at any time and that rules can never be made to control who uses it. If that were the case I'd be setting up housekeeping in the governor's mansion.

Public libraries have been wrestling with this issue for some time. The homeless squat in libraries, dragging all their earthly possessions with them, sleeping at study tables, bathing in the restrooms, doing their laundry in the lavatories, etc. Courts have restricted the use of libraries as residences. Most libraries now protect themselves by having clearly defined and communicated rules and consequences.

University libraries are even more restrictive. They are not public libraries and even though they are part of state institutions they do not serve the general public. They serve the students, faculty, and staff.


218 posted on 11/19/2006 7:27:15 AM PST by Burkean
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