Posted on 11/16/2006 4:57:59 AM PST by radar101
UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.
No university police officers were available to comment further about the incident as of 3 a.m. Wednesday, and no Community Service Officers who were on duty at the time could be reached.
At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.
The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.
The student began to yell "get off me," repeating himself several times.
It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.
UCPD officers confirmed that the man involved in the incident was a student, but did not give a name or any additional information about his identity.
Video shot from a student's camera phone captured the student yelling, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your fucking abuse of power," while he struggled with the officers.
As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.
"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.
As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.
Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.
Gordy was visibly upset by the incident and said other students were also disturbed.
"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."
Immediately after the incident, several students began to contact local news outlets, informing them of the incident, and Remesnitsky wrote an e-mail to Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams.
Ah, you are well read. Yes, probably somewhere like.. The Plain Dealer??
Yes, many were disciplined, for such things as: "parking in the wrong parking spot." "Failure to wear a duty hat"
But there have been other disciplinary actions, some rather serious.
Well done, where does your interest in the LPD come from? If I may ask.
"Well done, where does your interest in the LPD come from?"
I just thought it was interesting as you were here talking s**t. Want to talk about the ones that got sued?
By the way, hows the pie business going?
Ah, kids grow up too fast, I'm sure you enjoy them. I have a 'few' of my own. Everyone told me to study when I was a kid, but I wouldn't listen. Hard to raise a pack of kids on a police salary. It's OK though because I'm going to hit the lottery tonight.
Here's what I think. If I were to talk to somebody on the street the way most people talk to cops, I'd expect to get my fanny whooped.
I don't understand how people can cuss a cop up one side and down the other and think it's acceptable. Or not expect to get arrested for it.
hahahaha.. I'll talk about most anything. That's my problem, talkin' too much junk. And, Thanks be to God, we sold the shop. About a month ago.
So now I have a little more time for running my fingers.
"Thanks be to God, we sold the shop."
Hope you made some money. Hard business, pies.
Yes it was 2.7 million dollars. (As a settlement not as a jury award!)
And to think they actually pay some poor lady at Purina about $35,000 a year to taste dog food on a daily basis. I think she needs to join the LA Fire Department. But then again she's probably white, so her chances of prevailing in a lawsuit are probably about the same as my chances of actually arresting a gang member without myself getting shot or sued.
I'm not particularly fond of the idea of being transgendered. In San Francisco and other cities, they allow men to dress like women when they show up for work. I'm wondering if I were to dress up as a black man, would my chances of being able to actually arrest a gang member or a terrorist without being sued be any better.
There's a store on my beat that sells bling bling, grills, hip hop spinners, baggy pants and high tops. Do you think if I walked my beat dressed like that and flashed a few signs, that I would get more respect from these young men?
Confused Cop in LA.
Ah, what's money? hahahaha. Yeah, it was a very tough business. Probably one of the worst decisions I've ever made, buying that place.
Oh well, as me Grandmother used to say: "It's a tough life McGee"
...sounds like a case of successful profiling....
hahahaha... man, 2.7 mill, that is alot of money. For a dog food dinner.
Hmmm... more love if you put on the bling.... no, I can't see 'much love' if you put on the bling and flashed some signs. But maybe the dept. would give you a few days off? With pay??? ah, white guy, probably not.
I think were just screwed.
...sounds like a case of successful profiling....
Well, I'd love to stay and chat, but I gotta work off duty at a liquor store in a bit.
I grew up in Corona & Norco by the way. Many moons ago.
I'm right there. Right now.
Howdy Neighbor.
Sunny Cove in Corona and Hillside in Norco... Had kin in Fullerton, Anaheim, Paso Robles.
Talk to you later, gotta go stack cheese.
Those cops won't lose their jobs. They'll just be reassigned to some high school where they can tazer anybody they want to and the school could care less.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
As you rightly point out, the student didn’t show ID and was told to leave. The guard left and returned “minutes later” with the school cops. Now, we don’t know how long “minutes later” is. However, in normal conversation that phrase carries the connotation of a short period of time. If it were 15 min or more, most people would not use the phrase “minutes later”. Most people would say “a quarter of an hour later”, “half an hour later” or some such phrase.
This brings us to the question of where the cops had to come from. Your assertion that they had to come from a donut shop somewhere is not an assertion made in any article I’ve seen. But we don’t know, so you may be right. But even if you are right about the donut shop we don’t know how close it was to the room, or how long it took them to get there.
We don’t know if they had to come from across campus or from the next room. We can create dueling fantasy scenarios, but yours and mine would differ. Neither would have any value in the discussion. But At the end of this post I’ll create one like you did.
You claim that just because the student was walking toward the door doesn’t mean he was leaving. That’s true, but the fact that he had packed up his back pack and was carrying it toward the door after being instructed to leave would make it reasonable to assume he was doing as instructed. It is especially reasonable for someone just arriving in the room to assume that.
You claim that the student didn’t leave immediately when told to do so by the guard. You also claim that he committed the crime of trespass by not leaving immediately.
Well, what is immediately? He can’t push a button and instantly transport himself and his belongings out of the building. Nor do you allow that walking toward the door with his belongings means he was leaving.
By that standard everyone who is ever told to leave a property commits a trespass with no way of avoiding the crime. If I tell you to leave my home and you gather your belongings and walk toward the door you commit a trespass. You didn’t leave immediately. By your standard everyone who was ever told to leave a property committed a crime unless they were close enough to a door or window to jump out of it. According to you, starting to leave doesn’t cure the crime.
It is my contention that we don’t know if he tried to leave in a REASONABLE amount of time. We don’t know if the guard is a reasonable man or if his idea of a reasonable amount of time agrees with yours or mine. Assuming that you are a reasonable man should we then condemn the guard if his definition of a reasonable amount of time differs from yours? If not, why hold the student to that standard? If not, we can’t assume he committed a trespass.
As I’ve said again and again, the incident needs to be investigated by an independent civilian review board. The accounts of the incident given by the cops’ differ from those given by the uninvolved witnesses. I submit to you that that fact alone should cause suspicion about the veracity of the cops’ story. Let’s have an independent investigation and punish anyone who committed a crime.
Now as promised here’s my fantasy scenario offered to compete with yours and so many others’ on this thread. I submit that it is at least as possible as the school’s cops having to come from some donut shop somewhere or any of the other fantasies offered.
###
The student is working on an assignment and under the gun to finish it. The security guard interrupts him to ask for his ID. The student is perturbed and responds rudely. He refuses to show it. The guard tells him to get out. The student tells him he will when he’s finished. The guard goes for the cops.
The cops are in upstairs watching the captain of the cheerleaders retrieve a couple of books from an upper shelf when their radio says go downstairs to assist the security guard. Cop 1 turns to cop 2 and says, “I’ll bet you $100.00 it’s Barney.”
Cop 2 says, “No bet! He’s working downstairs tonight.” They walk down stairs and find Barney, the want-a-be SWAT cop, standing outside the room all agitated and ask him what’s wrong.
He tells them a student will not show his ID and will not leave. Cop 1 cuts his eyes at cop 2 who is rolling his eyes back and thinks “Gee maybe we should call SWAT and the National Guard.” Cop 2 is thinking, “We got called away before the cheerleader got her books for this?”
Barney is the security guard who calls for help more than all the other guards combined. Minor matters escalate whenever he’s around and the cops think he’s a wimp who shouldn’t even be a crossing guard. But they have to take care of his mess.
They walk in and Barney starts pointing toward a student who is walking toward the door, and sniveling in a high pitched voice, “There he is. There he is.” The cops want to throw up. All they want is for this to be over and to get away from Barney. Cop 1 walks over and grabs the student by the arm, really wishing he could stomp the shit out of Barney instead.
The student tells cop 1 to let him go in a rude tone. Cop 1 doesn’t need that crap after dealing with Barney and squeezes harder pushing the student toward the door. The student feels assaulted and starts calling for help. The cop pushes a little more and the student goes limp and really gets loud and obnoxious.
Now the cops are really pissed and tazer him. He falls down and they tazer him again. The bystanders are appalled and start calling for them to stop. Some of the witnesses ask for their badge numbers and the cops threaten to tazer them. More cops arrive and they take the student into custody.
At the office the cops write their report in a way that makes them look best while making the student look worst possible.
#
If the library is public, as you suggest, why check for student ID? My recollection from my days at UNC in the mid- 70s was that the libraries on campus WERE public, but that may have changed in recent years. I admit I don't know about UC campus libraries.
---But right now, I need to run to make my tee time. ---
This campus cop won't be able to make "tee time" ever. You never know who you're dealing with out there.
"By all accounts, Sergeant George Sullivan, 43, was one of the most respected and likeable persons working at the University of Nevada, Reno Police Department. "He was the kind of sergeant who cared for his troops and who led by example," said his chief, Kenneth Sjoen.
Sergeant George Sullivan
Just after midnight on January 13, 1998, Sergeant Sullivan was continuing his tradition of exemplary law enforcement service. He was patrolling the University of Nevada campus just north of downtown Reno. Records show that he made a traffic stop outside the campus grounds at 12:24 a.m. Thirty minutes later, his body was found next to his patrol car, just inside the south end of the campus next to an information booth. The 18-year university police veteran had been killed by repeated blows to the head with a hatchet. Before fleeing, the killer grabbed Sergeant Sullivan's gun and ammunition clips.
The next night, an arrest was made after a four-hour standoff with police. The man who murdered Sergeant Sullivan had robbed two convenience stores using the stolen gun. A search of the suspect's apartment uncovered the hatchet used to kill Sergeant Sullivan. It had been purchased just a couple of days earlier with one purpose in mind-to kill a cop. It turns out that the man who murdered Sergeant Sullivan had selected his victim at random. Witnesses reported that in the days leading up the attack the man had repeatedly stated, "I want to kill a cop." The killer stalked and ambushed Sergeant Sullivan. According to police, "It does not appear that [George] ever had a chance."
The jerk had multiple opportunities to leave the library when he was lawfully ordered to do so. He refused. Police and security personnel use pain to gain compliance because it's effective. It's far more effective than trying to reason with someone who has an audience and is "playing" you. It also sends a clear signal that you won't roll over and allow the subject and/or surrounding mob to control the situation.
This particular situation escalated because the little SOB had an audience. Had they cleared that section of the library before they forced compliance, he would have lost his cheering squad and may well have decided he'd be better off leaving on his own two feet. The choice was always his.
I'll say this, you have a very active fantasy life.
When a police officer or security guard tells you to leave a particular area, you gather your stuff, get to your feet and leave. You don't tell them to stuff it, you don't argue with them. They have the legal authority to order you off the premises and the authority to remove you if necessary. You have a responsibility to comply. THE END.
You don't seem to understand the concept of "rights". Being a student doesn't give him the right to remain after he was lawfully ordered to leave.
I just can't understand California logic. He had a butt kicking comming and now someone wants to talk about fairness and review. Don't hire people to enforce rules or give them the power and tools to do it. Lets just make sure no one gets their feelings hurt. They didn't clean up NYC by worrying about the feelings of some malcontents. If there was less concern about students feelings on campuses they might be better prepared for the real world after they graduate or at least we would have fewer radicals on campus.
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