Iraqi Police Officials Linked to Mass Abduction

Washington Post ^ | 11-14-06 | Sudarsan Raghavan

[dogbyte12]

What is the solution? It's really not military. Our military can defeat anybody on the battlefield. It is besides the point now. How can we stop one Sunni neighbor from gunning down the Shia family a few blocks away and vice versa without overwhelming force?

The answer was supposed to be Iraqi police, but they are fatally compromised right now. So many crooks, militia members, thugs in the police force that there is no way they can do it without us. We do have a choice of staying there for years and years and it falling apart once we go, or leaving now and letting it fall apart. Neither option is great. If they would just stop killing each other for just a few months so electricity starts flowing, jobs start being created, things can improve, but there is no end to the reprisals.

[RobbyS]

The dirty secret is that many liberal leaders would like to have the military reduced to what it is in France or Canada. They think that we were responsible for the cold war and the arms race, for all the trouble in the world.

[NorCalRepub]

I agree 100% with that assesment with alot of the blame falling on Bremer......and I'll foever think Paul Wolfowitz as a blow hard neo con who promised the Iraqi Oil would pay for the war....and now he is off globe trotting for the World Bank......good intentions followed up by poor execution and planning......

[jmc1969]

The Badr militia is the other great Shia militia in Iraq. They have been killing Sunnis even before the Madhi Army got into it after the Samarra mosque bombing, but they were more quiet about it. The Madhi Army just kills large groups of civilians or holds them hostage which makes headlines.

The Badr is the great enemy of the Madhi Army for control of Southern Iraq.

[John Lenin]

You cut'n lose Freepers are no better than th RATS.

[RightWhale]

The entire plan was apparently well executed but the reason for doing it was not well thought out.

[John Lenin]

You cut'n lose Freepers are no better than the RATS.

[jmc1969]

The answer is the Iraqi Army.

It needs to be strenthened and if necessary allowed to coup the current government as they would like nothing better to do and replace with a pro-American secular strongman.

[Wormwood]

You don't understand the idiotic PR system of government the UN recommended for Iraq.

Actually, I do. And my point stands: Sadr is part of a slate that was voted in by elections which we not only endorsed, but lauded as the culmination of our "mission".

Therefore, we can't just "put a bullet" in the head of this popular and *legitimized* force in Iraqi society.

[Wormwood]

The answer is the Iraqi Army. It needs to be strenthened and if necessary allowed to coup the current government as they would like nothing better to do and replace with a pro-American secular strongman.

So much for those purple fingers, eh?

[norton]

Some thoughts:
Democracy DID work, it is the institutions of a democracy that have not worked; because they were not there before and cannot be created from whole cloth in two or three years.
Germany DID have a democratic base before WW2; how many years did it take to get the system up and running after 1945?
Iraq is a victim of early 20th century western geopolitics - arbitrary and aimed at keeping them AWAY from any chance at a functioning society (the west intending to do that for them, and profiting from it).
They seem to be able to find new people to fill the gaps after each atrocity; there might be more sectarian hoodlums on the streets today but there are still Iraqis willing to attempt making it work.
Partition would mean a bloody Turkish expansion over all of Kurdistan, An Iranian hold on the Shia parts of Iraq, And a VERY hostile Sunni clump around the capitol and a couple of provinces (Syria is a different Baathist branch & has Lebanon/Israel to worry about).

The next two years are crunch time for both Iraq and the USA, even if our side wins most of the battles in DC, the Iraqis MUST know that the tap could be shut off and the doors close in front of them....

Don't quit just yet; let's see if they can step up as we wrestle over stepping out. [First thing we need to do is to conduct serious and unapologetic attacks on EVERY suspected, alleged, or possible terrorist cell/family/individual in the country - Tomahawks are an acceptable substitute for troops when you are in a hurry].

[jmc1969]

"Actually, I do. And my point stands: Sadr is part of a slate that was voted in by elections which we not only endorsed, but lauded as the culmination of our "mission".

Actually you are wrong. Look on the slate, nowhere will you find Sadr's name.

He simply made a deal with Sistani that candidates he supports will be added to Sistani's list just like Hakim did.

[dogbyte12]

We haven't lost. There is no cut and run here. Show me a target for us to bomb, and I say let's bomb it. Show me a standing army and we will engage it. What exactly are we supposed to do now? Be peacekeepers UN style?

We have defeated every standing army/militia in battle. It does us nothing in an urban guerilla war with people in civilian clothing perhaps being friendly, or perhaps with a suicide vest strapped to their chest.

I would actually welcome them all putting on uniforms so we knew who to shoot at, but it's not that kind of war.

[Wormwood]

I would actually welcome them all putting on uniforms so we knew who to shoot at, but it's not that kind of war.

And it was NEVER going to be.

Slam dunk, indeed.

[John Lenin]

I have already called for building bases and pulling back to them. A little genocide on the Sunnis will wake the region up to what they might face if Iraq fails.

[jmc1969]

Iraqi religious leaders issued a fatwa telling people to vote for the UIA list or be consigned to hell.

I wouldn't trust the Iraqi street to wipe its own a** let alone know what would happen if they voted for the combined religious block in the elections.

There are some professional smart Iraqis, the vast majority though are as backward as anywhere else in the Middle East.

[norton]

I forgot to add:
The Iraqi government is taking action against those in the police who are suspected of these kidnappings,
if they can actually do something about it, not making announcements without substance, they've made progress in bad times.

[Wormwood]

I wouldn't trust the Iraqi street to wipe its own a** let alone know what would happen if they voted for the combined religious block in the elections.

I completely agree with you. I just wonder where all this wisdom was in 2003.

There are some professional smart Iraqis...

Piling up every day in the Baghdad morgue.

[plain talk]

I hate to say what I am about to say. Maybe Saddam was right. Maybe it takes violence, fear and shredders to keep these people in line.

[Alberta's Child]

Don't be ashamed of that. Join the crowd -- some of us have been saying that for a while.