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Defenses on subs to be reviewed
Washington Times ^ | November 14, 2006 | Bill Gertz

Posted on 11/14/2006 3:00:14 PM PST by Paul Ross

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To: Jeff Head
With 10 of those on board a carrier, a whole lot of territory can be covered very quickly...and covered again and again if necessary.

Agreed. But instead they plan on just relying for the forseeable future on the helicopters, such as the slower and shorter-range MH-60R, which of course implies a degree of unseriousness for defense of capital ships that is alarming.

In WW-II we nearly lost the war in the Atlantic against the U-Boats because there was a Naval Admiral who was tasked with dealing with the submarine threat... He let his anti-British bias get in the way. He refused to incorporate the learning that the British had achieved. Wouldn't do convoys. Wouldn't do fast escorts...loaded for bear... with sonar. Etc.

If this neglect of ASW isn't a Chi-Comm mole or other Panda-Hugger misdeed... I would suspect somebody high-up in the Pentagon echelon who has some kind of similar mental hang-up about effective ASW even yet today...

41 posted on 11/14/2006 4:47:14 PM PST by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: fso301

I'd bet they surfaced within range because they were told to. Or else!


42 posted on 11/14/2006 4:49:33 PM PST by DonnerT ("GIG" is the only way to win the GWT. (Global Idiologic Genocide!))
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To: GOP_1900AD
Plus everyone and their uncle seems to have some Kilos kicking around these days.

Bingo. I LOVE to list off countries with submarine capabilities just to see the looks on peoples faces...

43 posted on 11/14/2006 4:50:41 PM PST by Severa (I can't take this stress anymore...quick, get me a marker to sniff....)
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To: Paul Ross

Since you brought Pandas into this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yis7DTXe03M


44 posted on 11/14/2006 4:58:06 PM PST by Rb ver. 2.0
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To: LadyNavyVet; tallhappy
Actually, my first very cynical thought is that the Navy wants its ASW budget enhanced.

Well for sure... but that's likely not even their major concern. There appears be a serious need for an attitude adjustment internally at the Pentagon. No amount of money will fix this problem of laxness of attitude. An attitude on display for all to see:

How else do you account for Admiral Gary Roughhead supposedly being mystified about China's intent??!

And if the attitude gets fixed, then the money issues might get better too. Albeit...it will be more than a little uphill with the RATs running Congress now.

If it were a mere budgetary gimmick...it should have been leaked a heck of lot earlier than this election.

45 posted on 11/14/2006 5:01:20 PM PST by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: LadyNavyVet
If they meant to be confrontational, it's going to backfire on them. We'll respond to their new capabilities with countermeasures. It would have been much better for them from a warfighting point of view to keep their little secret for a more opportune time.

Not if they hope to deter us from any strong defense of Taiwan or of intervention in N. Korea...or Iran for that matter.

As for countermeasures...they likely saw all that we are decommissioning...and have concluded that we can't restore the lost muscles on the flabby frame quickly enough to turn this around. It is possible, that in their judgment, the "window of their opportunity" has opened. They are alerting us to give up our allies without a fight...or else. And they are calling our bluff that we can't...or won't... fix our decrepit and dilapidated ASW capabilities before they make their move.

46 posted on 11/14/2006 5:06:44 PM PST by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: Jeff Head
The DEs are not fast enough and do not have the endurance to try and keep up with, intyercept or shadow a CSG in transit

You're right.

That could have been fully addressed with deployment of enough nuclear escort ships, (unfortunately produced as only one-of-a-kind )
USS Long Beach (CGN-9)

And the Bainbridge (CGN 25):


All three (inclusive of the USS Enterprise) together on cruise in Operation SeaOrbit.

47 posted on 11/14/2006 5:23:56 PM PST by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: Paul Ross
"the U.S. military has given Chinese military visitors access to sensitive U.S. facilities and military exercises"!

WTF, I thought this ended when Clinton left and the Lincoln bedroom hilton was closed to the Chinese military.
48 posted on 11/14/2006 5:34:45 PM PST by Tail Gunner John
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http://rapidrecon.threatswatch.org/2006/11/chinas-accelerated-taiwan-plan/

China's Accelerated Taiwan Plan
Fred

In an analysis published at Monsters & Critics, I noted that “recent U.S. intelligence reports indicate that communist China has accelerated preparations for a possible invasion of Taiwan.” While the United States remains engaged in the War on Terror, China’s grand strategy - which includes the retaking of Taiwan - remains unchanged and even aided by America’s engagement elsewhere. As Taiwan’s American protector focuses on the Middle East and terrorism, Taiwan and China tensions continue apace.

Offered are three primary pro-active military steps aimed at enhancing Taiwan’s defense and deterring China from offensive military operations against the island.

First, the Bush administration must convince its allies, the American public and in many ways itself, that a growing body of evidence – from the construction of enormous underground bunkers near the city of Shanghai to the development of offensive nuclear weapons – proves without question that China has become a “clear and present” danger to U.S. global interests and world peace.

Second, U.S. force posture in the western Pacific, already being reinforced, should continue, with the addition of another aircraft carrier to the Pacific fleet, amphibious landing ships and support vessels, long-range bombers, attack submarines and fighter aircraft. Existing assets located on the islands of Guam, Japan and Hawaii should be strengthened with the introduction of land-based anti-missile defense batteries and sea-based Aegis ships, creating a “tiered-defense umbrella” to protect against any Chinese aggression.

Third, during the first few hours of any conflict with China, it will be critical for U.S. armed forces to not only withstand an attack, but also to organize an effective counter-offensive – projecting concentrated power at multiple points to eliminate any immediate or latent threats. To achieve this objective, U.S. forces dispersed throughout Asia and the western Pacific must be given the ability to quickly consolidate, making any offensive military operations undertaken by China’s newly christened combat forces extremely difficult.
China increasingly believes it can undertake a lightening strike on Taiwan, occupying the island using a strategy of overwhelming, intense and concentrated force, making the potential costs of island defense and reclamation far too costly for Washington. By making adjustments to improve overall force strength, diversity and rapid-strike capabilities, the U.S can keep Beijing tactically off-balance, making any first strike by China’s military a catastrophic proposition. Finally, with the assistance of our allies in Asia, a new collective defense strategy must be put in place that assures Taiwan’s sovereignty, independent of Beijing’s communist influence.

How the United States responds to the Chinese military posture towards Taiwan will have significant influence over the Chinese communist leadership’s decision making process with regards to military action against Taiwan.

As I asked at the conclusion of the analysis offered, could Washington live with a communist controlled Taiwan, or will it defend Taiwan against unwarranted aggression? We may soon find out.


49 posted on 11/14/2006 6:50:55 PM PST by Frank Sheed (Tá brón orainn. Níl Spáinnis againn anseo.)
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To: Frank Sheed
As I asked at the conclusion of the analysis offered, could Washington live with a communist controlled Taiwan, or will it defend Taiwan against unwarranted aggression? We may soon find out.

From the looks of 51% of our electorate, the answer is a resounding "no, we will not defend Taiwan." If we don't even have the stomach for winning in Iraq, how are we going to garner the support for defending Taiwan against China? Majority of Americans don't even know where Taiwan is and probably think they are all Chinese anyway.

There is a reason why the Korean War is called the Forgotten War.
50 posted on 11/14/2006 7:50:40 PM PST by jojoba
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To: Paul Ross
Don't forget the Truxton (CGN 35), the California (CGN 36), the South Carolina (CGN 37), the Virginia (CGN 38), the Texas (CGN 39), the Mississippi (CGN 40), and the Arkansas (CGN 41). All nuclear powered cruisers and all decommissioned early in the 1990's under Clinton.

We had had nine nuclear powered cruisers that were very capable of keeping up with the carriers...and now they are all gone. Such a shame...and such a waste. They carried twin standard missile launchers, and like the Kidd class, with the latest upgrades could be slaved to the AEGIS system or operate quite adequately alone.

Here are pictures of the Truxton, and California class and the Virginia class.

...and here is a pic of six nuclear cruisers together:


51 posted on 11/15/2006 2:57:08 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be)
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To: Jeff Head

Thanks for the pictures! I miss the USS Arkansas. First one (BB) was blown up by a nuke, 2nd one blown up by a fluke (WJC).


52 posted on 11/15/2006 6:43:48 AM PST by DCBryan1 (Arm the Pilots. Arm the Teachers. Build the Wall. Export Illegals. Profile Muslims. Execute Scum.)
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To: Paul Ross

How about if we first stop selling our submarine tech to China?


53 posted on 11/15/2006 9:51:25 AM PST by PeterFinn (Support the Troops by supporting their mission.)
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